Hi everyone,
I want to write more and hopefully get better, but I got really turned off from writing coms by what I heard and saw on Discord and . I am looking for a group where I don't receive unnecessarily caustic/bitter/passive-aggressive criticism for mistakes, especially since english is not my first language and I am probably not the most innovative/daring writer around (I just wanna write fantasy). If you need an example of stuff I take issue with, look at the r/writingcirclejerk mega and reccs for what turns me off.
I get that you have to show your stuff to other people eventually and get criticism for your mistakes, but I would prefer a space that is not so emotionally frustrating, lowkey to highkey transphobic/ableist etc etc. I get screamed at and have to deal with condescending assholes enough on the job/politics. I don't want that in something that is supposed to be FUN.
Do you have any recommendations for online groups or places that are relaxed, ND- and trans-friendly? They should still offer criticism and not white lie about things. Becoming "Better" means avoiding clear, objective mistakes, better structure, producing enjoyable, if not super groundbreaking works of fictions in the english language.
I don't want any "the world is hard, you have to be hard on yourself, you should suck it up" shit. There has to be a less gnarly way.
Thank you so much (insert unobtrusive, yet friendly heart emoji here)
I'm going to rant about writing and writing groups for a minute if that's okay. I'm not sure if the problems you've described here are just a reddit thing. I have been a writer for at least twenty years. In-person writing groups weren't really too different from what you've described here, even back in the glorious days when reddit didn't exist. All of what I'm writing here is IMO so feel free to argue with me, but writers have to be some of the most insecure artists I'm aware of because we do actually get so little feedback on our work (unless we are immensely successful). I think this tends to make us hyper-critical and hyper-competitive. With rare exceptions I find writers to be unpleasant, privileged, liberal, etcetera. They / we are a lot like theater kids, but we get even less attention than they do. Theater kids get applause and laughter and gasps, sometimes from large audiences, but what do writers get? A few notes here and there?
I also feel like musicians generally get a lot more immediate feedback and tend to be much more relaxed than other kinds of artists but that's me. I'm not a good guitar player at all, but I've gotten people to dance when I play. I'm not a good actor at all, but people have come up to me and said they enjoyed my performances. I've always taken my writing the most seriously out of all my artistic pursuits, and a few decent amazon reviews is nothing compared to having a live audience react to your work. That way, you can quickly figure out what's working and what isn't. When you publish some writing or give someone your writing, on the other hand, sometimes months or years of work has gone into it before anyone has even seen it, so there's a lot more at stake I guess.
There's a book out there called The Pursuit of Perfection that I haven't read, but which I am now going to read (because it's been uploaded to libgen since the last time I checked...) which is all about how writing groups basically suck. (Although if you want to do one, be my guest, I might even join if you'll let me despite all my negativity.) I can also think of something Werner Herzog said once, which is about how if he had to teach a film class, he would basically just order his students to get a journal and walk back and forth across the country for a year, journaling the whole way. According to Herzog, by the time his students finished this task, they would have learned way more about filmmaking (and life in general) than he ever could have taught them.
Writers ultimately read very differently from the way readers read. A writer, when handed another writer's work, looks for problems. A reader, when purchasing a book, is the complete opposite—they look for entertainment. After all, if you buy a book, and it turns out that the book sucks, you feel like a chump. There is, however, a different kind of dynamic going on now with amazon reviewers trashing books for political reasons. (SF readers will give you a negative review if you have the word "fuck" in your otherwise violent and bloody SF novel about how it's cool when space marines do a space genocide!) This has basically blackpilled me into believing that there is no such thing as objectively good art. People like Harry Potter for instance because they are liberals and Harry Potter is an effective (and admittedly well written) affirmation of liberalism. Since becoming a Marxist I've ended up questioning a huge amount of post-1917 western art that's supposedly "good" but which tends to be mediocre at best, and which is only really pushed by the corporate media because it is anti-communist. (Nabokov is the most obvious example—an incredible, poetic stylist, the last gasp of 19th century symbolism, but every other aspect of his work is actually appalling. Borges is basically the Spanish version of Nabokov.) But am I just saying this as an excuse for my own lack of talent?
Ultimately I think that once you get the basics down, the best feedback comes from people who have actually paid for your work (or who have downloaded it from libgen heheh). But this also depends on your goals. If you want to pay the bills with your writing, it seems virtually impossible to do this as a communist, because the people out there who are still actually paying for books are not only not communists, but they are vehemently anti-communists , and they can sniff out your communism even if you are very careful to avoid mentioning trigger words like “capitalism” or “communism”—the dialectical materialist approach immediately sets off alarm bells for liberals. Communists tend to have neither the time nor the money to buy books. I can only write (let alone publish) at all because of an immense amount of privilege. I've set a goal—for many years now—of bringing home a few thousand dollars each month from my writing, but it will be a miracle, and by far one of my life's greatest achievements, if I ever manage to pull it off (without selling my soul).
Anyway, sorry if this was too much of a downer, and good luck!
No, thanks, I appreciate all you have said. I am not hostile to a systematic view on this, I want to write bc I need to express myself somehow, I will be happy when somebody reads it at all and doesnt throw it away, really. I think the least nasty way to approach writing is from the perspective of self expression and some small form of recognition. Of course, some people rely on it for making money, which is just how it is. In that case I have understood it is soul quenching production of treats for bored middle class ppl or bourgs who don't know libgen and love cishet detective novels where virgins get (insert CW here) for drama.
Since I was being pretty vague, I am talking more not wanting shit like
Spoiler
"Of course AMABs write about violence" "Can you even read?" "I doubt you will ever write something worth publishing" "You should go back to elementary"I am somewhat fragile bc of trauma and shit that happened to other people around me and I dont want any more mental wounds n that area, maybe I am paranoid. I can live with artistic rejection. I don't need to put communism allegories or allusions inside things, I just wanna get my feelings and expressions out, this is not gonna push anybody to become a revolutionary cadre, this is just like me talking about my experiences
Regarding the spoiler, jesus christ, fuck anyone who says this shit to any writer (even though I just wrote like three pages complaining about writers). I’d be happy to read your work and provide positive feedback in this writing group, if you decide to make it.
, but I will upload stuff in c/writing I think, once it's cooked