News
Welcome to the News community!
Rules:
1. Be civil
Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.
2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.
Obvious biased sources will be removed at the mods’ discretion. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted separately but not to the post body. Sources may be checked for reliability using Wikipedia, MBFC, AdFontes, GroundNews, etc.
3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.
Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.
4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source. Clickbait titles may be removed.
Posts which titles don’t match the source may be removed. If the site changed their headline, we may ask you to update the post title. Clickbait titles use hyperbolic language and do not accurately describe the article content. When necessary, post titles may be edited, clearly marked with [brackets], but may never be used to editorialize or comment on the content.
5. Only recent news is allowed.
Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.
6. All posts must be news articles.
No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials, videos, blogs, press releases, or celebrity gossip will be allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis. Mods may use discretion to pre-approve videos or press releases from highly credible sources that provide unique, newsworthy content not available or possible in another format.
7. No duplicate posts.
If an article has already been posted, it will be removed. Different articles reporting on the same subject are permitted. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.
8. Misinformation is prohibited.
Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.
9. No link shorteners or news aggregators.
All posts must link to original article sources. You may include archival links in the post description. News aggregators such as Yahoo, Google, Hacker News, etc. should be avoided in favor of the original source link. Newswire services such as AP, Reuters, or AFP, are frequently republished and may be shared from other credible sources.
10. Don't copy entire article in your post body
For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.
view the rest of the comments
I don’t see an answer to my question there. We all agree the status quo is intolerable - so what’s the alternative? What should they do instead?
Can you point to another conflict that was resolved by doing all of these things clearly targeted at civilians? How exactly are the things I mentioned required for fighting a terrorist group? When ISIS was defeated, did the coalition forces come in and just murder literally everyone and flatten occupied villages to the ground, or did they take out leadership? I am not merely talking about civilian casualties when people are near a place targeted by an airstrike- I am talking about specific targeting of civilians.
As for what they should do instead - actually fight Hamas instead of the Palestinians as a whole. By taking actions aimed solely at Palestinian civilians, Israel has lost all claim that this is in any way self defense
You do see how extremely vague this "alternative solution" you're offering is, right? I think the fact that people struggle this much to give anything resembling a concrete answer when this question is posed highlights just how impossible the situation is that Israel is facing.
I’m extremely sympathetic to the reluctance of going door to door looking for terrorists who are hiding among civilians - often dressed as civilians themselves. While I can’t defend bombing an entire city into rubble, I also don’t feel comfortable telling them not to when I have absolutely no idea what they should be doing instead.
I don't think this is vague at all. Stop doing airstrikes on places that have civilians in them. Send in armed troops instead if shooting one or two Hamas assholes is so important to you, or just drop it and refocus on making your intelligence and security better so October 7 can't happen again, but either way dropping bombs on places with civilians is never acceptable. "But Hamas [whatever]" does not change that.
e;
Please, at least they have guns and armor and squad mates and medics and it's infantry v infantry for them, the poor civilian bastards have none of that and are facing a damn air force
It is vague.
Gaza is a city, not a country. Telling Israel not to strike where there are civilians is effectively the same as telling them not to fight back at all. Hamas operates from among the civilian population - often dressed as civilians themselves. They don't not-strike where there are civilians. It’s an enemy that doesn’t fight fair and deliberately exploits the rules of war for strategic advantage. They could relocate their civilian population into one part of the city and engage the IDF in another - but they don’t, and I’d argue that’s deliberate.
You don’t just “drop it” after 1,200 of your civilians have been brutally murdered.
So what should Hamas do in your ideal world? I am legitimately curious because you're kind of making an argument in favor of Hamas here, since Israel has killed, at the absolute lowest estimates, 20 times as many civilians as Hamas has. I am obviously not saying they should fight to the bitter end, just that this reasoning means that the fighting should never stop.
What should Hamas do? Deradicalize or die. Israel isn’t going anywhere - so either they both learn to live in peace, or they don’t live at all.
I’m not entirely sure what you’re asking here. I do sympathize with Hamas in the sense that they’re fighting a vastly superior enemy, and fighting fair would likely lead to their defeat. But deliberately sacrificing their own civilian population as martyrs and human shields doesn’t seem like the way forward either.
Will deradicalizing hamas stop israel occupaying palestine? The obvious answer is no.
I love this reasoning. Do you apply this to literally anything else in your life?
Nobody forced you to engage with my question. It's you who chose to. It's pointless to get frustrated with me for your failure to come up with an aswer.
Realistically what do you want me to say? Should I come up with a fully fledged military plan to take out Hamas? There are plenty of articles you can read from people who are experts in counterinsurgency and military strategy that do have more detailed plans, but I have a feeling you won't be satisfied with those either because you will just shift the goalpost to be a precise list of strike locations and tactical movements because fundamentally the issue is that you don't want to feel complicit in something horrible.
Your solution is killing almost all palestinians under the pretext that hamas use human shields