Ask Lemmy

There is zero big argument about power dynamic, Israel could easily reoccupy all territories if Hamas do not stop launching rockets after ending colonization

It so easy to go back to history and cherry pick violence from any side . For example Jewish kingdom did force conversion to Judaism and destroy villages , no jew should be hated for events like that just like Palestinians has no culpability in war happen in pogroms made by Arabs and even Christians .

Despite the mufti effort, most Arab sided with allies and not the Nazi Germany. 13k Palestinians volunteered to fight . There was Yemeni jews that migrated to Palestine and Palestinians and them was visiting each other festivities . During the Reconquista it was the ottoman and African speaking Arabic countries who accepted jews to the land they control

I don't justify violence but there was violence because Palestinians started to realize Zionists intention to force a state on local people . During the violence there was also other Arabs protecting the jews. Like in Hebron massacres over 400 jews was saved by their Arab neighbors.

Once the state of Israel was created they could have lived in it but instead decided in 67 to occupy Gaza and west bank and started building settlements making a two state solution impossible

after the formation of a large army in the wake of the establishment of the state, we will abolish partition and expand to the whole of Palestine - Ben Gurion

The Egyptian Army concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him.” -  Menachem Begin

I will note the slew of pogroms in the middle east and ask you read about why the Bar Giora was formed.

I understand that you are trying to draw a direct line from the modern IDF to a historic Jewish Resistance Movement. However, I would argue that it was coopted by foreign powers and abandoned it's goal of an independent jewish state after it's transformation into the Haganah and transitioned from a defensive force (largely support) to a colonizing force (don't support).

I do not support the Ottoman empire in its persecution of religious minorities. However, I do not see how your logic and worldview wouldn't support the Ottomans in persecuting the Jewish people at the time due to their militant tactics. What perspective am I missing?

Tell me what your point is or drop it.

The point is controlled opposition, perverse incentives, and the power/danger of "sell outs".

and you talk about murdering whole families as if that wasn’t the intent of pogroms

Guess I missed the Palestinian pogroms which justified Israel's genocidal war on the Palestinian people.