Edit: 37 points, 87 comments, a struggle ratio of 2.35! Not bad!
this post was submitted on 21 May 2025
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I'll +1 this (not the Badempanada videos or anything but your general sentiment)
To me the problems with Xianjing and the Uyghurs are something I HATE whenever a lib or conservative brings up to me as some sort of gotcha about China, because in my mind there is no 'right' side or objectively true stance.
Like do I believe that western media and governments have a vested interest in supporting a separatist movement like the Uyghurs' in a country that does not align with their goals/views? Yes - any one of us can probably name a half-dozen different countries the US has done basically this to in the last 70 years.
But do I believe the US/NATO/etc is airdropping Ugyhurs into Xianjing to protest about perceived violations to their human rights/dignity/etc? Not really. Terrorists and separatist movements don't really form out of nowhere & terrorists usually do want something. I think the idea of some Western power going "yeah if you convince the west that china is killing 100 billion Uyghurs every year to build their high speed rail network, we'll help you form your own country" is basically worthless to most people who aren't already skeptic of western media/propaganda and understand how manufacturing consent works.
The same goes for like, linking someone to a medium post that debunks reporting about some labor camp or whatnot - it's all well and good to link to such sources, but when you try to give that as a source to someone whose idea of a 'source' means 'large publication' it bounces off.
All this to say that it is something I refuse to even really discuss with my lib friends because NONE of us have been to China or Xianjing and none of us speak the language or can read it. It is impossible for me to say whether or not China is doing ethnic cleansing or even whether or not they're putting Uyghurs in labor camps that are probably not a good time; so why would I bother getting into arguments about it both online and offline? Lol.
Again, for the record I wanna say I hope & don't think China's doing ethnic cleansing. I do think that there probably is some good reason that the Uyghurs as a population want to separate that goes deeper than just 'it's a color revolution being supported by the West'. In any case I don't live in China and have never been to Xianjing & have never spoken to a Uyghur so who is to say really
The separatist movement is literally a Salafist movement that wants to create a Uighur caliphate. It is Uighur ISIS, which is obviously not an organic Uighur movement because Salafist ideology is from Saudi Arabia and directly contradicts the Uighur interpretation of Islam which is closer to a Turkish interpretation. Uighurs have a long history of making and drinking wine, for example, which is expressly forbidden by Salafists. The separatists train with ISIS and go back to China, forcing women to wear niqab and burka (not something Uighurs have ever done historically), not allowing women to use money or drive, and forcing them to continue having sex and children even against their will. These last things are illegal in China and that's why they are sent to prison, but the prisons are actually designed to deradicalize them, provide job skills, and reintegrate them into their own society without being influenced by Salafism. Salafism is what is trying to eliminate Uighur culture, and China is preserving Uighur culture by banning Salafism.
It's really easy to go and round up Salafists because they dress and act totally different than traditional Uighurs and are always breaking the law because their religious beliefs require them to do illegal things, like the subjugation of women described earlier. The government has responsibility to stop this, especially when it spills over into terrorist attacks as it did many times before they began the deradicalization campaign.
China is doing well by combatting the root of extremism which is poverty. Xinjiang is very remote and was lagging behind the rest of China in access to jobs, education, healthcare which meant that they were susceptible to radicalization. They are close to Afghanistan which the US turned into a Salafist training center explicitly to destabilize the entire region by promoting separatists. Now Xinjiang is a massive tourist hub, has access to everything the rest of China has, and the Uighur culture is thriving. More people speak Uighur than there are Uighurs in the world, showing that non Uighurs learn the language just to get by living in Xinjiang because it is so prevalent. The opposite of the cultural repression people claim
Excellent points, I really appreciate the addition of the nuance that has been lacking in typical MSM talking points about Uighurs that it's like their version of ISIS that's being detained, not all Uighurs.
Do you happen to have an article discussing this talking point that I can read up on?
There is a mega thread floating around on this topic I will try to find, and also some good videos. I'll get back as soon as I can
no worries comrade, I appreciate the help
https://www.qiaocollective.com/education/xinjiang
There's some other links I will find but been busy, this one has a lot to go off of though
Was skeptical of the source at first, but they do seem to have some useful information here. Thank you!
+1 for you as well because, this, 100% this.