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This is outrageous! It's unfair! (lemmy.world)

submitted 2 days ago by PugJesus@lemmy.world to c/starwarsmemes@lemmy.world

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[–] tyler@programming.dev 8 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Exact same thing with aluminum. Officially named by the Brits, then other Brits didn’t like it.

[–] merc@sh.itjust.works 7 points 2 days ago (3 children)

The revised name is better though:

Helium
Lithium
Beryllium
Sodium
Magnesium

And the next should be...? If an element ends in "um" there's normally an "i" before the "um". We should also fix Molybdenum, Lanthanum and Tantalum while we're at it. There are 80 elements with an "ium" ending, but only 3 or 4 (depending on if you say Aluminum or Aluminium) without the "i".

Also, screw it, #79 should be Aurium.

[–] tyler@programming.dev 1 points 1 day ago

I don’t really care what it’s called, just that the Brits have a habit (is two a habit?) of making up a word, using it until Americans adopt it, and then dropping it and saying “dumb Americans”. Not that that’s actually what happened, as I detail in my comment below, but it sure does feel that way.

[–] skisnow@lemmy.ca 3 points 2 days ago

Also, screw it, #79 should be Aurium.

You'd really be fucking Spandau Ballet over with that one.

[–] Threeme2189@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (3 children)

On the flip side, how would you pronounce the following?
Helum
Magnesum
Tatanum
Sodum

[–] merc@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 day ago

Writing them that way would be Sodum.

[–] skisnow@lemmy.ca 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Sod 'em.

[–] YarHarSuperstar@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

So dumb, for me.

[–] pumpkinseedoil@mander.xyz 2 points 2 days ago

I'd just say

Helum
Magnesum
Tatanum
Sodum

[–] pulsewidth@lemmy.world 5 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Well yes and no, but mostly no. The originally-proposed name by the Brit who named it was actually alumium. Scientists in other European countries (not the UK) gave him feedback that it should have the prefix 'ium' and logically be named aluminium as it is refined from an alumina/alumine oxide, following the naming pattern of other elements. He agreed and refined it to aluminium, but also used aluminum in a textbook he wrote around the same time.

This was all within a decade or so more than 200 years ago. The scientific world settled on aluminium long before any products had even hit the market in the US, but Noah Webster for whatever reason decided to use the spelling 'aluminum' in his dictionary in 1828, even though US scientists were already using 'aluminium' and it was more common locally. And once it was in the dictionary (with no mention of the alternate spelling) it stuck.

So this one is mostly on the US.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium#Etymology

[–] tyler@programming.dev 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

You’ve misread the Wikipedia. It states that he didn’t agree but it could possibly be named aluminium. He then proceeded the next year to use aluminum instead. It was then called aluminum and aluminium in Britain for years.

However, in England and Germany Davy's spelling aluminum was initially used; until German chemist Friedrich Wöhler published his account of the Wöhler process in 1827 in which he used the spelling aluminium[o], which caused that spelling's largely wholesale adoption in England and Germany, with the exception of a small number of what Richards characterized as "patriotic" English chemists that were "averse to foreign innovations" who occasionally still used aluminum.[139

So for almost twenty years the Brits (and Germans) called it aluminum, not aluminium.

Americans used aluminium until Webster heard aluminum and put that in his dictionary. Then they actually continued to call it aluminium until the 1890s (the Brits still using both at this point). Then there was a swap in that decade

It is decidedly (according to the source you posted and my past research) the Brits fault. They called it aluminum. They used that name for years, and then only later changed it and then acted like the Americans were weird.

So yes and no, but mostly yes, it is the Brits fault.

[–] pulsewidth@lemmy.world 1 points 2 hours ago

I don't know where you read that England used the US spelling until the 1890s, your own quote states that the 1829 Wohler publication caused 'almost wholesale' (overwhelming) adoption of the 'aluminium' spelling in England and Germany.

The Wikipedia article disagrees with itself a little on timelines to be honest. Under Origins it says 'aluminum' was used in Britain between the years of... 1812, when Davy published his textbook (prior to that it was 'alumium'), and... that same year in 1812, when:

"British scientist Thomas Young wrote an anonymous review of Davy's book, in which he proposed the name aluminium instead of aluminum, which he thought had a "less classical sound". This name persisted: although the -um spelling was occasionally used in Britain, the American scientific language used -ium from the start."

Then in Spelling section states what you've quoted which conflicts with the above account on timelines of adoption stretching the change to 1827.

Regardless though, it doesnt change the story much. There was use of both for two decades (not one) in Germany and the UK before they standardized on 'aluminium'. OK.

Brits still haven't used 'aluminum' for ~200 years, American scientists used it never, and Webster's dictionary & American engineer Charles Martin Hall (who wanted to advertise his process with the name Aluminum as it resembled platinum and therefore sounded more valuable and prestigious) are the clearly cited cause of its widespread use in the US & Canada (wiki states both were used widely prior to Hall's publication in the US, and 'aluminium' was more common), but.. nah, this is the Brits fault?

I'm not so sure I'm the one who misread.