this post was submitted on 17 Feb 2025
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One Woman in the Justice League

Just one woman, maybe two, in a team or group of men.

Also watch Jimmy Kimmel's "Muscle Man' superhero skit - "I'm the girly one"

The Avengers:

In Marvel Comics:

"Labeled "Earth's Mightiest Heroes," the original Avengers consisted of Iron Man, Ant-Man, Hulk, Thor and the Wasp. Captain America was discovered trapped in ice in The Avengers issue #4, and joined the group after they revived him."

5 / 6 original members are male. Only one is female.

Modern films (MCU):

The original 6 Avengers were Iron Man, Captain America, Thor, Hulk, Hawkeye, and Black Widow.

Again, 5 / 6 original members are male. Only one is female.

Justice League

In DC comics:

"The Justice League originally consisted of Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern, Martian Manhunter, and Aquaman"

6 / 7 original members are male. Only one is female.

In modern films (DCEU):

The members were/are Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Flash, Cyborg. (+ introducing Martian Manhunter (in Zack Snyder's Justice League director's cut))

5 / 6 main members in both versions of the Justice League film are male, with appearances by a 7th member in the director's cut who is also male. Only one member is female.

The Umbrella Academy (comics and show)

7 members:

  1. Luther (Number One / Spaceboy)
  2. Diego (Number Two / The Kraken)
  3. Allison (Number Three / The Rumor)
  4. Klaus (Number Four / The SΓ©ance)
  5. Five (Number Five / The Boy)
  6. Ben (Number Six / The Horror)
  7. Vanya (Number Seven / The White Violin) Later becomes known as Viktor and nonbinary in the television adaptation after Elliot Page's transition but that's not really relevant to this.

Here, 5 / 7 original members are male. Only two are female. Only slightly better than the other more famous superhero teams, and they had to add another member (compared to Avengers' 6 members) to improve the ratio (maybe executives still demanded to have 5 males).

Now let's look at some sitcoms and other stories.

It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia:

4 males, and 1 female slightly less prominent character who is abused constantly. The show claims to be politically aware and satirical but gets away with a lot of misogynistic comedy, tbh, that I'm willing to bet a lot of people are finding funny for the wrong reasons.

Community:

Jeff, Britta, Abed, Troy, Annie, Pierce, Shirley. This one is a little better, 3/7 are female. Notice it's always more males though, they never let it become more than 50% female, or else then it's a "chick flick" or a "female team up" or "gender flipped" story. And of course the main character, and the leading few characters, are almost always male or mostly male.

Stranger Things:

Main original group of kids consisted of: Mike, Will, Dustin, Lucas, and El (Eleven). 1 original female member, who is comparable to an alien and even plays the role of E.T. in direct homage. When they added Max, I saw people complaining that although they liked her, there should be only one female member. 🀦

Why is it 'iconic' to have only one female in a group of males? Does that just mean it's the tradition, the way it's always been? Can't we change that? Is it so that all the men can have a chance with the one girl, or so the males can always dominate the discussion with their use of force and manliness? Or so that whenever the team saves the day, it's mostly a bunch of men doing it, but with 'a little help' from a female/a few females (at most), too!

It's so fucked up and disgusting to me I've realised. And men don't seem to care. I'm a male and this is really disturbing to me now that I've woken up to it. How do women feel about this? Am I overreacting?

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[–] wewbull@feddit.uk 50 points 3 days ago (2 children)

I don't accept the premise of the question. People don't complain about female led movies, as long as those movies are well written. What people complain about (and this should include people looking for increased female representation) is projects that prioritise having female leads over having good writing.

Take the trend of gender swapped existing male characters into female ones. If, as a writer, you're prepared to follow through on that concept and explore how it changes the story, then it can be interesting. A chance to experiment with the differences in motivation between genders and how obstacles can be navigated in different ways.

If you're just going to swap "he" for "she" in the script and call it a day... Well that's boring and doesn't deserve anyone's time. It's not interesting or clever. In fact it's often bad take. You can end up with a woman on screen showing that to be a hero they have to display hyper-masculine traits. How is that a good female role model?

[–] HereIAm@lemmy.world 14 points 3 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

I mean, there is definitely a crowd that don't like women as lead characters. While not directly related to movies, just see how a bit of peach fuzz on Aloy upset people when they showed off the new Horizon game. And that's not a poorly written game or character.

Something like Captain Marvel does suit your argument; a poorly written character and movie, so people who criticise it get lumped in with the "women are bad" crowd. But there definitely are people who just hate things that put women in the spotlight.

Edit: fix shockingly poor grammar and spelling.

[–] wewbull@feddit.uk 6 points 3 days ago

I mean, there is definitely a crowd that don't like women as lead characters....

There are always crazies, but I don't think that's a large number of voices. I seriously think that most people just want well written characters that are true to themselves and the situation and don't give a shit if its a man / a woman / black person / white person / pig or sentient blob of jelly.

[–] Feathercrown@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

To prove this point, The Marvels was received better than Captain Marvel, and it had 3x as many women in leading roles

[–] dontbelasagne@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I personally think Ms Marvel is the best disney+ marvel show and I'm a white guy.

[–] Feathercrown@lemmy.world 1 points 2 days ago

It was good, had a vibe that very few other shows did.

[–] tetris11@lemmy.ml 14 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

I prefer it when the gender doesn't matter, and that the hero doesn't need to prove anything to the audience. They're just well-written and we're invested in their motivations and the wider story around them.

A good example of this is the excellent She-Ra cartoon. I can't think of many good examples beyond that sadly...

[–] Droechai@lemm.ee 12 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Ellen Ripley's gender doesn't matter until Resurrection, which isn't the highlight of the movie.

A lot of media have strong female characters but their gender or sex does matter for the story so can't easily be replaced

Susan in the book Soul Music (plus some others) as well as the Witches, Tiffany Achings and more from Pratchett

Death from Sandman (even though the author is very controversial, but you could check the books out from sources that doesn't give him a kick back)

Was a long time since I read them but the Polgara books feature a strong female protagonist

We got classic youth/kids media that shows strong female characters even if some stuff are coloured by weird takes (Such as Xander Harris): Xena, Buffy and Pippi Longstockings

[–] wewbull@feddit.uk 11 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Ripley being a woman didn't matter much in the first film. It's crucial to her character in the second. It's her maternal instincts that drive her protection of Newt and that drive her into direct conflict with the alien queen.

The final battle is two mothers fighting for their children.

[–] Droechai@lemm.ee 8 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I saw that as parental instinct since protection of young are not gender coded, but you can read it as maternal for sure as a mirror to the Queens hatred after the egg burning

[–] wewbull@feddit.uk 5 points 3 days ago

It's more explicit in the directors cut when you learn of her own daughter's fate.

[–] djsoren19@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 3 days ago (1 children)

You can make an argument for it mattering in the first film as well, but that starts examining the film from a lense of Ash, Weyland Yutani, and the Xenomorph being metaphors for the patriarchy.

[–] Klear@sh.itjust.works 3 points 2 days ago

Eh, the character was written as "Ripley", sex unspecified. IIRC none of the characters had their gender written into the screenplay and it was intentional.

[–] tetris11@lemmy.ml 6 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

Oh true -- Alien did it pretty good

I do find cartoons the best examples here. Pippi LΓ₯ngstrump is an interesting choice since I think that's aimed primarily at girls, but PepperAnn did it pretty well with an ambiguous audience. Daria (arguably, though she's a bit of a toxic character). Kim Possible maybe? Again probably mostly aimed at valley girls, but the show was interesting enough that anyone could watch it.

Books wise, plenty of examples. Lyra, Matilda, Anne of Green Gables, etc.

I think issue is just hollywood. They pander to the lower common denominator which tends to be alpha males looking to justify their existence

[–] Droechai@lemm.ee 6 points 3 days ago

At least when I grew up in the late 80s and 90s both boys and girls read the books and watched the movies with Pippi.

I agree that Hollywood is a blight on the cultural landscape, and you basically have to disregard their movies if you want to find something deeper than a puddle, with exceptions few and far between