this post was submitted on 14 Feb 2025
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We warned the people who sat home on election day about project 2025 and yet they covered their ears and enabled all of this.
I voted for Harris out of harm reduction with a funeral dirge in my heart yet again voting for neoliberal scum that sold out the country to the corpo Fascists lock step with Republicans for decades, but is this the resistance from now on, or will we eventually stop scolding what is now the past hoping it will change the present or future?
Because it won't. You can't shame his voters, Republicans have been immune to shame since Reagan, and scolding the low information "I'm not political, teehee when's football/Reality Show crap on" people who haven't had anything at all to vote FOR, only against the greater evil for the last 50 years will only make them roll their eyes and remain disengaged.
Either foment hot revolution starting with destroying the capital markets, steal the DNC with a socialist populist as trump did as a fascist populist to the RNC, or back a socialist Party. Everything else is masturbation on a sinking ship with the capitalists tearing new holes every day.
Because either under neoliberals or Fascists, the capitalists are unrestrained. And if the capitalists remain unrestrained, the planet WILL burn in our lifetimes for all of humanity effectively forever, as millions of years is forever to our little monkey brains.
There are microplastics in my kids' brains, but by God let's not slow down fracking in Pennsylvania.
I was told by a coworker, just after election day, that Project 2025 was just propaganda, and that "Democrats have their own propaganda too you know..."
Shit left me speechless. I was just like, let's revisit this conversation in three months.
mine were like yea but the price of eggs
I assure you we now talk about the price of eggs, inflation, and job security daily
and by that I mean I talk at them while they pretend it is all fine
It's a really interesting time right now to talk to them about those egg prices.
I know they're going to stick their fingers in their ears and go "LA LA LA BIDEN" but you can't stop.
Seriously, we're in this mess because they wore us down so we stopped engaging. START ENGAGING AGAIN. We have to make this uncomfortable for them, all of them, they have to identify the correct source of this discomfort too. Stop caring if they scream or whine or threaten to not associate with you or ANYTHING else. We have to start getting some thicker fucking skin.
You know all that shit you see on your feed "Epic leftist DESTROYS prominent conservative!" and it's some select clip of a talk show or interview? You know all those smug "leopards ate their faces" posts that make it look like the right broadly is suffering under its own folly and we all just need to sit back and chuckle?
IT'S ALL BULLSHIT. NONE OF THAT MEANS ANYTHING. We are in the most danger of losing America than we've EVER been in since the revolutionary war itself. The right is NOT running scared, they're not worried, they're not suffering. Not yet at least.
They're celebrating in the streets because they think they're winning. Your TASK, each of you, is to make sure that when it starts really hurting, when their social services dry up, when their VA checks bounce, when their childcare subsidies are revoked, when their food stamps are canceled... is to draw for them a direct line between who they fucking voted for, and what they've lost.
You might think this sounds stupid and obvious, and that's the same conditioning that made you think we were going to win. Don't be naive. Build communities. Get informed. Get in people's fucking faces and who CARES if you get attacked, insulted, hit, screamed at or filmed? What TRULY do we have to lose when we're on the verge of losing everything?
So did you revisit that conversation?
Because I've heard that exact sentence from my buddy, who is from Eastern Europe - still talking about the US. Where did they get that info, I will never know.
And Democrats were warned that they need to stop putting their thumbs on the scale to push the most dog shit candidates that don't promise anything that will help the working class. Fascism happens when democracy is unresponsive to the needs of the working class, and for the last 50 years Democrats have just been great at finding excuses for why they can't do something. Do you think Trump will listen to the parliamentarian if they disagree with something?
Fuck, Democrats have even been voting for his cabinet picks, despite claiming Trump is a fascist. They all voted to confirm Marco Rubio.
So, the litmus test of this logic is this: Do we blame the opposition for the Nazi party? Should we start doing that too after 80 years?
Yes, we should, as liberalism works for capitalism and capitalism always leads to fascism. Rosa Luxembourg said it best, socialism or barbarism. But Marx and Engels described the end stage of capitalism almost 100 years before fascism.
It's a concurrence. Who do you blame for the rise of the nazi party: the nazis who kept rigging the deck in their favor and sowing discord, the conservatives who enabled them, the ineffective social democrats whom people were disillusioned with, the people who held out against voting for them, or the people who basically were screaming at the latter three to do fucking something.
Yup, in other words post WW1 German society as a whole. People don't get to blame Dems without laying blame on themselves as part of this present society.
The antifascists are the only ones who weren't partly to blame. But also on a scale of who's most to blame, it's the nazis.
yup. that's my point, sometimes users on Lemmy (and other left-leaning sites) imply that Dems are much more to blame than trumpists. Ultimately it's the people who voted for trump and then the people stayed at home, and then the Democrats.
With the amount of screaming and championing that the Dems have ignored I refuse to believe it's incompetence or ignorance. This is wilful and active support for the party they claim they're in opposition to.
Cool but I'm actually asking who you blame in the 1930s. In the 2020s I think the dems loved the idea of opposing Trump when they thought it was easy and not when they didn't. But i can also see scenarios in which they acted how they did while hating the whole situation
They're not an opposition. They famously will not act like one. They're complicit. After this loss and the lack of resistance I'm done. I've canvassed and fought for Dems for almost two decades and I could count our number of "Wins" on one hand. What a colossal waste of my time and effort.
Dems/Reps aren't the same because they're just as bad as each other, they're bad because they're both on the same team. The Dems had multiple chances to stop this and actively chose not to. It was a trolly problem with no one on the other tracks.
That’s not true, the professional managerial class (“coastal liberal elites”) that Harris laundered a billion dollars through only to lose and their donors aka the “good billionaires” (words of the new dnc chair not mine) were on the other tracks.
The division is the point
And voters were warned with years of inaction that they needed to start being more engaged.
The reason we have so many shit candidates is because people don't show up for the real ones.
"The purpose of a system is what it does". If our system consistently produces shit candidates, shit policies, shit results and demoralizes voters... Then we have a shit system and nothing will ever improve until we demand a modern multiparty democracy with proportional representation and safe guards against fascism.
This is certainly a viewpoint, but I don't necessarily agree when people state it as if it's a foregone conclusion.
Starve the beast exists. They purposefully cripple these systems, and if you were to adhere to that statement, then it means that we should do away with the systems altogether because they're currently broken (read: sabotaged).
That is a bad take imo
Multiparty democracy would be fantastic but that's a goal if we make it through this crisis. A more realistic (yet still fanciful) plan would be to destroy the Democratic party and create something new from the ashes. First past the post is here to stay for a long time.
Going to one of the many forms of preferential voting/ Ranked Choice Voting would work. That both major parties vehemently oppose changing first past the post should tell you that such a change would be effective in breaking their power.
Democrats fielded someone who wasn't a criminal IN A BINARY CHOICE.
It's baffling how stupid people are. Just vote for the person who isn't a rapist bent on destroying the country. Like "see the man-child who can't keep his hands to himself? Vote for the candidate who isn't him."
Stop whining that Dems didn't field mother Theresa.
Genocide apologist
I voted for Harris, but she was an accessory to Biden's genocide of Palestine. So don't pretend like she was a decent candidate. Her refusal to condemn genocide was monsterous and made her completely unfit for office, but she just happened to be the lesser evil so I voted for her.
Our system is just rotten beyond redemption. Conservatives ratchet the country towards oligarchy while Liberals act as bulwark against socialist reform that would actually help the working class.
Oh for fucks sake.
It's been ages now, it's getting to be like that all over the world. You don't vote for a candidate. You vote against the raving lunatics. It's starting to be like that everywhere. Do you really think you're going to find a politician you're going to want to vote for? What are you? 8?
Liberals: genocide is ok with us so long as our team wins.
Is the bar for candidates in fucking hell? How about you grow up and gain a fucking conscience? This isn’t John Kerry in 2004 this is a fucking genocider.
Well now you'll have an extra genocide in Ukraine since you care so much.
Maybe the US shouldn’t of fucked with Ukraine back in mid 2010s and there wouldn’t be a war going on for the last three years 🙄
Of course you're that kind of delusional. Figures.
I swear if somebody brings up genocide with Harris again when defending Trump...
how was that response defending trump?
People keep defending not voting for Harris by saying she was for "genocide". But not voting for Harris allowed genocide on a scale that voting for Harris never would have -> so people who are clearly FOR genocide keep saying they avoided voting for Harris because they are somehow against genocide...
The original was saying they voted, so not in this particular case, except where they are saying the same thing, but I keep seeing that Harris=genocide response on here every other day, when we can clearly see (and from project 2025 could clearly see a year earlier) that the other option was a full blown nazi state which will kill millions. Got a very easy option to stop it before it started, with the added bonus that the Harris government would have been more responsive to protests (at this point, anything would have been more responsive to protests) and could have been then pressured to not go along with the Israeli occupation. Instead these people choose (and are keeping to defend their choice) to kill a few millions out of... idk, spite? Including the people they are claiming to protect by not choosing Harris. Especially them.
And right now I'm not sure if they are horrified by the blood that will be on their hands (better option) or trying to push the "don't support the dems no matter what" narrative to stop any coherent movement (propaganda bots). I'm guessing the latter in most cases, because they include AOC, who would definitely organize, IF there was some support which there isn't.
Everybody's so very sure the "other side" is blindsided by propaganda, but the fact is that both sides are blindsided by propaganda. It's pushing the nazis to act and pushing the woke to sit back and wait or run around like headless chicken and backstab their own. But you are both pushed.
tl;dr: the Harris=genocide narrative will still cause harm by stopping any support for dems organizing which is why social media is flooded with it right now
it’s amazing how you turned ‘i voted for harris but genocide is bad’ into ‘he supports trump’ as if there exists no other democrat
fuck off with you dishonest framing
Stop blaming voters and start blaming democrats. It’s THEIR fault they lost to fascist criminal when they ran a genocider and refused to hold a primary
We need to move forward and this histrionic blathering is a distraction.
Keep losing elections
It's not election season. Move the fuck on. This is ridiculous.
I'm talking about shit that's happening right now, if the party had changed I wouldn't be bringing it up. To move forward, the Democrats need to change leadership to people who will fight for their constituents instead of pointing fingers at them for 'not voting hard through', never mind that for most people outside swing states their presidential votes don't even matter to begin with.
The party and the media spent years telling people that Biden was fine to run even though everyone with eyes could see he was declining, they made sure there was no competitive primary and then parachuted in a candidate that dropped out before Iowa when she last ran for President. And after this whole exercise, they're still surprised the electorate doesn't trust them despite being lied to for years about this and a bunch of other stuff.
I still think Trump actually is a terrible candidate, Democrats just consistently manage to find worse candidates on their side.
Blah blah blah. Lemmy has an endless supplying armchair political experts. The what the dems did done wrong has been covered endlessly. You contribute nothing. You are a distraction. You benefit Trump and musk. And the more you and your ilk do this the more it benefits them.
The brigading that occurs every time I mention this not matter how I phrase it is very telling. The spread of this message of hopelessness is your goal.
Just keep on punching left instead of focusing on the fascists. It worked out for Weimar Germany after all.
Literally saying to stop the internal fighting and you're claiming I'm the one doing. This always feels like talking to right wing projectionist.
Harris would have beat Trump if she promised to fight for universal healthcare or free college. Or if she had simply not sprinted to the right by wanting to build Trump's wall and promising to put Republicans in her cabinet. It was honestly impressive how hard Harris worked to throw the election.
She probably would've done better if she hadn't done that and put some distance between her and Biden, but obviously that's tricky when you were actually part of the admin. When I say she was the worse candidate I don't really mean her personally, it's more about what the electorate was looking for, which means more of an outsider who was willing to say how things could've been handled better by the previous administration instead of saying everything's great.
I understand you're hurt and concerned right now, with good reason. That said, to get out of this we need to be objective about how we got here.
Blaming our current situation just on people who didn't vote is not taking into account the whole picture. Yes, if non voters had shown up at the polls and voted Harris then Trump wouldn't have won. Also if people who voted for Trump had not shown up, then Harris would have won. If people who voted Trump had voted Harris, she would have won. So?
WHY do people act the way they do? Because of the candidates. Because of the parties. Because of the information they encounter. Because of the entrenched interests that have created a low quality of life, and led people to believe that nothing will change, and that they can't trust what "elites" say.
Does that make the current situation any better? No. But it at least hints at possible avenues to go down, ways things could be improved. Saying "we told them, but they didn't listen" implies there's not much action that can be taken, just relaying information beforehand, and scolding after.