722
Has anyone else noticed a sudden lack of reading comprehension skills?
(sh.itjust.works)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 22 Aug 2023
722 points (93.3% liked)
Asklemmy
43908 readers
907 users here now
A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions
If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!
- Open-ended question
- Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
- Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
- Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
- An actual topic of discussion
Looking for support?
Looking for a community?
- Lemmyverse: community search
- sub.rehab: maps old subreddits to fediverse options, marks official as such
- !lemmy411@lemmy.ca: a community for finding communities
~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
I'm afraid there's nothing new about this, it has been going on for a long time. What I do believe is happening is now that every idiot with a cell phone can jump of sites like lemmy or reddit, we are simply seeing a lot more examples of the problem. Pretty much like when camcorders became affordable to the general public, we suddenly saw all kinds of police brutality videos and some people thought this must be a recent trend when in fact it had been occurring all along.
One of my last comments on Reddit was about this.
It has made me start writing more clearly. There are comments I've written that have been wildly misinterpreted from my actual meaning. Part of that is that I tend towards sarcasm, and it doesn't translate well over the internet no matter how absurd I get with it. But I've also started aiming to use more simple sentence structure.
to use simpler sentence structure.
use smol words
Why use many word, when few word do trick?
use less word
word less.
Brief
Few
One of my favorite Redditisms was picking out incredibly obvious sarcasm with massive downvotes. Bonus points if replied to with a huge angry essay.
And due to the voting patterns, I learned to be suspicious of my own comments that were highly upvoted. I started to see it as a bad smell. My best work was the controversial stuff.
My biggest upvotes were always jokes. If I tried to make reasonable points about anything, or god forbid, shared my experiences - I was downvoted into oblivion and people would actively comment to tell me how much they hated my way of thinking or just repeat to me that I need therapy as if going to therapy harder was some how the answer.
Excuse me but you are interrupting my dopamine flow. Your response appears to be neither a meme, rage bait, justice boner, nor even a pun. I hope you learn from this experience and do better.
"do better" is my personal ragebait.
So many people where I live over use that shit.
Introducing quotes from authors that were related to the subject would really show how people were locked in the context of media immediacy, the environment. Links to outside citations would almost always generate replies from people who obviously did not study the citation and just wanted to respond back.
It used to be something people said 'out loud' about people not reading links and just commenting... then it just became normalized.
oh yeah the good ol' [citation needed] meme even though they were already given a damn citation.
Such an obvious sign of someone just responding to respond. Relies on repeating memes as a crutch and can't have a real discussion about a a topic.
there's also the problem of people not reading it in the first place, and the problem of people intentionally misinterpreting what you say in bad faith. those aren't literacy issues
I've had the same experience with people (intentionally or otherwise) misinterpreting what I said to mean something completely opposite. And I call them out on it every time, like seriously did you even READ what I said or did you just see a few words and insert your own beliefs into what you thought I was going to say? I've actually had some people admit that yes, they did indeed quickly skim without letting the actual words sink in.
It's really a shame that you're reducing your writing to the lowest common denominator. Sure there may be times when there's a reason for that (Earth not flat, dummy), but the rest of the time it drags down the whole conversation to a level where it's difficult to have a meaningful discussion. If someone is really trying to grasp a concept but they're missing it then of course you need to drop out of the technical jargon to help them get up to speed, but the ones who are there just to ridicule and troll simply aren't worth the effort to explain simple concepts to (such as your opinion on women's reproductive rights is meaningless, the only opinion that matters is that of the woman who is affected by the issue). Keep up the high-quality discussions and ignore everyone who doesn't make the effort to keep up!
IMO, many (most?) people quite simply don't think about things. They just have some dogmatic positions they've taken for some reasons, and they regurgitate them as necessary.
And that's a lot of the reason that they so often and so brazenly misinterpret things other people say. They're not actually reading to comprehend - they're reading just to get enough of a feel for it to classify it, so that they'll have some (potentially quite wrong) idea of which bit of rhetoric to trot out in response to it.
You are not wrong. Reading what you typed, I can't help but think about the people who have spent so much time defending their self-serving opinions that they can no longer have any reaction other than to start arguing. My ex had a bad case of bi-polar. She was really a great person, but any time someone disagreed with her (or even if she thought they were disagreeing) a switch would flip and she would rage at you until she thought she had won. Even walking away wasn't enough because then she wanted an admission that she was right. Funny thing was that after that had passed and she calmed down, you could talk to her rationally and she could see your point, but it simply wasn't worth the effort.
Yup. This is the only way. Those people are just trying to get responses. The only way to get win is to not give them what they want.
Honestly I feel like the only reason they do this is to bring people down to their level so they can feel like they are somehow smarter, because that's a lot less effort than actually learning about the subject. Ah well.
It's true. It's a way for them to feel like they are better than someone else.
Sure, there's that. Also, sometimes I just write bad.
Haha don't we all!
yeah
At times I've been considering using spoiler mechanics to write a "simple English" reply, followed by the actual answer, hidden for only the more discerning reader to uncover.
There's a difference between simplifying a message and writing at a lower reading comprehension level. I think a lot of accidental incomprehension might just be caused by the reader not being very good at reading English.
In my country (and I think the whole EU), government agencies have to write at a B1 level to make sure official publications and letters are accessible to all citizens. I think that's a good rule of thumb for online conversations as well. (However, writing pleasant prose at B1 level is a whole different beast. Generally, they're not very good at it.)
Good point on catering to those who speak other languages, I hadn't considered that.
So what does a B1 level equate to? I'm assuming it's lower than college level, probably lower that a high school level? Are we talking like middle school, grade school, or something else?
Sorry, didn't get a notification.
Yeah, it's basically at high school level, so most of the adult population should be able to understand it without much issue.
No worries, thanks for the update. Yeah that makes sense, we would hope that most people make it through high school, although the way they're going in some parts of the US by gutting the education and white-washing history (they're actually trying to teach kids that slavery was a GOOD thing!!!) I feel like in a few years a high school education here is going to be meaningless.
I was a strong advocate for rediquette for a long time, but the site kept attracting new people who didn't give a shit about it. You can't fight the tides of change, I guess.
The eternal September eventually gets you.
Unmarked sarcasm via text is just always a bad idea. People don't realize how much body language, tone, and to an extent history with the person, goes into recognizing sarcasm IRL.
When you remove all of that context... it's often just an extremely dumb statement, and I for one am just going to take you at your word, because too many people really do mean whatever it is you just said.
It's also terrible because you get a comment like "I guess the earth really is flat" which maybe 99% of people take as sarcasm, and then the one flat earther or borderline flat earther comes along and goes "wow, lots of people are getting behind this movement!"
Yeah, I feel the sarcasm thing. I used to use a lot more absurdist humor but over the past decade it's become increasingly pointless and even counterproductive as Poe's law moves along with the Overton window of stupidity. Stuff that used be recognized as obvious satire before gets taken much too seriously far too often now.
You should use emojis to convey sarcasm 🙄
It helps to use only happy nice words. A happy sentence is an objective sentence, free from judgements or pronouns.
“You watch that stupid thing too much.”
Starts with a pronoun, contains “stupid”, ends with a judgement. It’ll make people furious and it’s not the content for them but the trigger words they scan for.
“Maybe we could go outside instead of watching TV?”
Same reasoning behind why you said it, different responses sometimes.