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this post was submitted on 19 Nov 2024
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askchapo
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if you're leaving the us this is like asking for animal products made without animal exploitation. go to the fl keys if it actully means that much to you. or deal with the reality that the American empire has dominated the global south and has basically broken whole countries so that rich Americans can do slavery roleplay. you can go and not engage in the more obscene elements but if you will never not be complicit, you can't avoid these unpleasant truths you have to acknowledge them. and as someone who has family in one of these beautiful island paradises where most of my relatives are living in conditions Americans could never imagine.. its whatever if you go, I dont think you're a bad person right? the same way I don't personally think people who eat animal products are bad people (pretty sure you disagree there tho lol) but you cannot deny the reality that they are engaging in unnecessary exploitation.
but yeah you have tropical beaches at home (they suck but that's what happens when you destroy the environment). i saw you considering Vietnam, that seems extreme just to go to a beach, dont get me wrong i wanna visit one day but that's so much money JUST to go to a beach.
like people are saying Cuba? thats so fucking insane? you think Cuba is free to control their economy free from us influences and exploitation. like Cuba would be WORSE you get that right. your country is literally embargoing them now a significant amount of their economy has to be dedicated to the indignant tourism industry. making your country a white playground is not liberatory, its a humiliation forced upon the Cuban people. you cannot delude yourself out of your privilege, you will never be on equal ground to these people your country is strangling.
also I'm going to Cuba next year for vaycay (gonna tell the gov we are visiting family shhhh)
I'm just not under any delusions about not having to consider my actions.
Yeah, I don’t get it. As I said, if you’re so concerned about not doing an imperialism, the mainland US has so much to offer in terms of natural beauty, there has to be a beach somewhere ffs.
Also, if this is actually such an important ethical problem for you, you literally can’t go outside the mainland without a guilty conscience.
yeah i honestly feel like this idea leads to leftists acting like drunk/belligerent assclowns in cuba. and you're right, we have like every typeof environment you can want without leaving mainland America. mountains, canyons, beaches, wetlands, you literally never need to leave to see them all. save the money, travel domestically and donate to cuba aid if you want to do the most ethical thing.
The mainland is also stolen land, there's no ethical consumption etc etc.
At least in cuba you're contributing much needed foreign currency to their socialist economy in contravention of the wishes of the US state (not to say there are no issues with tourism in cuba, but there are some mitigating factors that put it above capitalist, especially settler-colonial states to me). In florida you're just contributing to the desantis regime and the utter destruction of indigenous lands.
Absolutely, the US itself is definitely the worst in terms of "being complicit in colonial exploitation". I don't know what the "right" answer is though
Can't say this is the answer I wanted to hear, but I appreciate the honesty and analysis. Thanks!
thanks for listening! And hey, mainland America has so many beautiful locations, you can definitely still travel and have really fun trips and memories.
I already responded to you but I wanted to add
Look, I really like beaches, okay
But on a more serious note, this goes a bit further than "just to go to a beach." What I have in mind is a once-in-a-lifetime trip: not just a vacation, but the best vacation I could possibly have given my means and moral principles. And the only place for my ideal vacation is a tropical beach.
ooohh then maybe Vietnam, its also one of the best places for vegans to travel!!! listen I don't think its WRONG to travel just that the tourism industry is inherently exploitative and there is no place untouched by colonialism. if you pick a place, do your research, actually engage with the culture, always tip really well, and leave as minimal impact on the environment as you reasonably can I think that's fine. but as you can see in this very thread there are examples of white "leftist" saying the most repulsive chauvinistic about these countries. simply try to be the opposite of that and you'll be good. (also TIP goddammit nobody fucking tips, tip as much as you would in America) you cant buy a t-shirt without engaging in exploitation ya know. you just need to be aware of that and act accordingly. 99% of white tourists fail at basic human decency.
Haha believe me, I am about as far from the stereotypical loud entitled American tourist as you can get. My philosophy is that if I vacation in a foreign country, I am a guest, and I want to be a good guest.
you love to see it