314
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 24 Oct 2024
314 points (82.2% liked)
Asklemmy
43733 readers
1567 users here now
A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions
If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!
- Open-ended question
- Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
- Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
- Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
- An actual topic of discussion
Looking for support?
Looking for a community?
- Lemmyverse: community search
- sub.rehab: maps old subreddits to fediverse options, marks official as such
- !lemmy411@lemmy.ca: a community for finding communities
~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
She's campaigning on building the wall. she's endorsed by dick cheney and 200+ reagan and Bush admin staffers. we have sent more aid to Israel in the past year than we ever have since Israel was invented. she has stated that her support of Israel is iron-clad. the current admin has broken records for the amount of oil and gas extracted extracted in the past 4 years. she has refused to voice support for the trans people who are supposedly going to be protected by her admin. she has kicked Palestinian people out of her campaign events, while instead parading around Richie Torres, a person who famously has stated multiple times that Palestinians deserve their eradication. her policy page has removed all mentions of medicare for all and paths to citizenship. she has promised to make america's military the most lethal fighting force in the world.
she has decided that the "moderate conservative" who will never vote for her is more important than all the progressives and leftists who probably would've. just like Hillary Clinton and Dale Earnhardt, she's going to crash into a wall because she can't turn left.
The fact Dick Cheney, a war criminal along with Bush Jr. and her 'graciously' accepting of it, is not sending massive warning horns and bells to the average Dem, OE to her own campaign should be enough to see they have lost their own plot. They are out of touch and just screaming, orange man bad, does not fix their own problems. Many people are not enough of a blind ideologues to not see that.
They are pushing for Trump's border wall. Like come on.
Democracy : Very bad choice versus very very bad choice
Democracy : a vote for the system versus a vote for the system
Democracy : a thin facade hiding a genicidal monstrous death machine that claims to speak for us all
Hint : is it really democracy after Edward Bernays ?
Time to overwrite the government and take out the trash
made it into a song draft (et en québécois)
And if you're in this position where you see this all as fact, then what is the alternative?
IMO there is none.
Trying to rebuild the system at the time of an election is the wrong time. You have two options - because that is the reality you live in (right now).
Work on building something better AFTER the election, change the system, fix it for the future. But for NOW, you get a choice. Not voting (in this system) is a vote for ambivalence, and you dont seem like the person that doesn't care.
But importantly, work to change the system later. You have valid concerns and the system you are in is broken, but you can make a change.
Edit: to not be misconstrued, I agree with the issues at hand that you're highlighting. I'm just saying that the alternative is worse and that is a likelihood in this reality no?
Always time later right? Later never comes though does it.
And all of this concern was here before the election, its only getting attention now because during election season is the only time it has an effect.
People just blow off protestors during the non election season. Why? Because they don't have to bargain with them, they have no power then.
They have no power because they believe they have no power and dissociate. Self fulfilling prophecy. All the power in this country comes from the people. It's a fact.
There have been countless protests in the US against the genocide of Palestinians over the last year, since Israel really kicked the genocide into high gear. What have the democrats (the party that everyone insists can be pressured by their base) done in response to this?
I don't know if you've noticed but the democrats chances of winning are being hampered by this issue.
Of course they are. Harris might lose because of her positions on Gaza. And in spite of this, most Democrats, including Harris, refuse to budge on their "ironclad" support of Israel. Just like the Biden administration has refused to budge in the face of countless protests against their support for Israel over the past year.
I'm arguing against the whole "elect them and then pressure them into moving left" rhetoric because that has proven to be a completely ineffective tactic.
Seems like your tactics has been ineffective. I mean especially when you consider trump taking office and unleashing only terrible shit that a addled minded fascist would want.
Oh don't get it twisted, none of these are "my tactics" and I understand that the current Dem leadership won't budge on their support for genocide. They've made it clear that their tactic is "try to win a presidential election while going against their own base". We'll see how effective that tactic is in around two weeks :-).
Only a smug prick could be happy with such an outcome. And I'm supposed to think your support for Palestine is altruistic.
When did I say I was happy? I don't want Trump to win any more than you do. Which is why I'm so upset that the party with the best chance to stop him is choosing to risk losing the election (and jeapordizing the rights of millions of Americans who will be harmed under a Trump administration) by continuing to support genocide. Doesn't this make you angry?
This is why we call it "bad faith actor."
At least after the election your type will crawl back from the hole they wriggled out of.
No but seriously, does it not make you angry that the Dems are willing to gamble votes if it means they can keep helping Israel murder children? Genocide is that important to them? These are the people who are supposed to be better than that. If that doesn't make you angry then I don't think I'm the one acting in bad faith. Criticize my smiley face all you want, I'm not the one gambling with the future of the country and we both have every right to be angry about that :-).
You want my 300 page thesis why the democrats can suck my balls?
The vote isn't about me getting all my desires then retiring in a utopia. It's about steering the country in a direction. Right now the tracks are set to fascism and plutocracy. You want to be mad get mad in time for the primary and get kamala out. Which should have been joe this season but the electorate thinks the way to win is through extorting the psychopaths that climbed their way into government.
Nah, I cant be mad that the country founded on genocide and slavery is still invested in hate. I can't be mad the electorate that elected Trump still exists. I'm mad that come February I will hear only crickets and the giant shit sandwich we all consume every 4 years will be forgotten.
I disagree with equating "I can't vote for a president who wants to continue to help commit a genocide" as "I expect a utopia and will settle for nothing less". I'm not going to vote for Jill Stein or whichever third party candidate, but I don't blame people who do. I blame party leadership for their failures. If they have a better vision for the future, it is their job to convince people that they are the best for the job. Right now, Dems are choosing to gamble their own votes so they can keep helping fascists commit a genocide and what increasingly appears to be a war of expansion and conquest in Lebanon.
Hell yeah. I have voted in every primary I could since I hit age 18.
You can, and you should be. Being mad isn't the same as being surprised.
Totally agree on this point, and I don't know why you assume that I'm one of the many who choose to spend four years at brunch before starting to care about politics again.
Because you're fighting me on the fact that the people are the ones with true power.
I'm arguing against the idea that electing Kamala, then expecting to be able to move her left after the election, is a viable plan. If more people didn't tune out once January rolls around, then maybe it would be more feasible. But you and i are in agreement that a lot of people simply tune out once the election is over. Libs who protested kids in cages under Trump ignored kids in cages under Biden.
Voters have leverage now. If Kamala wants our votes, then believe me I would be thrilled to see her earn them.
It's a false leverage. The only thing it will do is make things worse for yourself. That was plain from the onset.
Why is kamala willing to lose rather than earn more votes from the left then?
After election protests were shot at, broken up and arrested. Election is the only way to change how stuff is today.