148
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 03 Sep 2024
148 points (94.0% liked)
World News
38979 readers
3842 users here now
A community for discussing events around the World
Rules:
-
Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
- Post news articles only
- Video links are NOT articles and will be removed.
- Title must match the article headline
- Not United States Internal News
- Recent (Past 30 Days)
- Screenshots/links to other social media sites (Twitter/X/Facebook/Youtube/reddit, etc.) are explicitly forbidden, as are link shorteners.
-
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
-
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
-
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
-
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
-
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
-
Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
-
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
Lemmy World Partners
News !news@lemmy.world
Politics !politics@lemmy.world
World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world
Recommendations
For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/
- Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
I would say that all tracks but american car companies are refusing to even attempt to make an affordable electric vehicle, so how can you say its just a gap in research that subsidies would fix.
Subsidies would be drained the same way the profits were, why wouldnt they. American car companies refuse to listen to demand, and this is what they get for it.
If China wants to pay for my next car for me, I'm fine with that.
They could build and sell a basic car (combustion) for under $15k if enough people bought them but most people don't want stripped down compact cars. There's just not enough of a market to justify cheap cars in the US.
I disagree but I don't really have any data or anything.
In my opinion most people want the least car they need. Its a tool and the simpler and more efficient the better. We won't know because there just isnt a line of cars like that.
I have a 2017 Mitsubishi mirage manual thats very simple and efficient, not a bad example.
Mitsubishi sold 87,000 vehicles in 2023 only 13,000 were mirages. Kia sold 782,000, 27,000 were rios. Nissian sold 235,000, 4,000 were versas.
In Europe the dacia sold 493,000, 200,000 were sanderos. Those are the numbers needed to make cheap compact cars.
Its an example of the type of car I think would sell well if an american car company made it.
There is no comparison vehicle by american brands at the moment.
Renault could import the Dacia Sandero and have its msrp be $1000 less than the versa after terrifs. With that kind of price advantage you'd think they would but there's been no effort on their part. The US market for cheap vehicles is too small.
I don't have an issue myself but I think. the average american wants to buy from one of the american brands, even the one thats not american anymore.
I don't think Americans trust dirt cheap foreign goods just yet. Harder to find the right person to yell at you know, or whatever.
The Mazda 3s in the 2010s were cheap and were competitive with the focus sales wise. Kia has sold tons of vehicles and they are piles of cheap garbage yet Americans keep buying their larger vehicles.
So do we have demand for cheap cars or not then? I thought you were arguing the demand wasnt there.
Besides you confirmed by opinion that its common to not trust "piles of cheap garbage".
In my opinion the ford focus was just as much a pile of cheap garbage as the rest but people think Ford is more reliable or at least wouldnt try to kill its own citizens.
The demand isn't there for small cheap vehicles, my point was Americans have no problems buying cheap "foreign" cars.
My opnion of does not reflect the opnion of the American population, kias and Hyundai sell well here.
Our opinions on vehicles are not the issue. Americans don't want cheap domestic small cars which is why they don't sell well here. Americans don't want cheap small foreign cars not because they don't trust cheap foreign vehicles but because they don't want cheap small cars.
Then why do people want a cheap small electric? It being electric changes the whole equation?
I know a ton of people that won't buy new cars to begin with too, you don't think the used car crowd loves cheap small cars?
Is it possible instead of the demand not being there at all, its being diverted to used automobiles and so new car sales are skewed to more expensive cars and luxury cars?
The working class does not buy new cars on the regular as far as I know. The median wage in america is what like 50-55k a year?
Where's the evidence people want compact electric cars?
They are used cars for financial reasons not for preference. Further many people purchase a larger 3 year old used vehicle for the same price as a new small one.
If small used cars were in demand then wouldn't they depreciate less? There are fewer used Honda fits then civics yet they depreciate at the same rate. It appears the used car market preference is similar to the new.
Median household income is $75k. Though car size preferences don't seem to change based on income.
Well per person its 45k per worker but household numbers are fine too, although 35% of houses have two cars so that means they need to double their car budget in most cases.
I'm assuming the demand is there because the federal government has said they are concerned people might buy so many cheap BYDs it would drive american car companies out of business. Why would they care if noone wanted them?
An electric small car still is a small car, which a Ameridans don't want the sales numbers show that. Further people seeking cheap cars are typically not homeowners which makes charging a problem so there's even less of a market for cheap electric cars.
No where is it claimed that Chinese vehicles would drive American car companies out of buisness, the article was discussing how China could use Mexico and nafta to side step terrifs.
Okay so maybe I'm misunderstanding thr whole situation. What's the risk of allowing Chinese BYD imports without tariffs then?
American companies want less competition and certainly don't want to compete against a heavily subsidized vehicle.
So essentially its just an over reaction? I mean that and the tiktok ban were some of the quickest legislation americans have seen lately. Maybe just media fear mongering?
China makes more than small cars, they make medium and full sized too. The larger cheap cars pose much more of a threat than small cheap cars. Both US car companies and the Unions don't want cars from China and their politicians got into line really quick during an election year.
Is there a high opinion of american made cars right now though, large or small? They have been very predatory in the past however many years.
Maybe people would want to save the american car industry if it served it's customers better. I was hoping BYD would force american car companies to go back to trying to make a useful tool instead of a means to extract money.
I think you are right, and I hate that it is a fact.
What I want right now is a small electric kei truck or utility van for use as an in city daily driver. Just make the cargo area large enough to put 4'x8' sheets of plywood in it and close without any fuss and I am sold, but I don't think that's going to happen here anytime soon.
Ford discontinued selling their small Transit Connect van here recently so that isn't even an option anymore.
Thr problem is there is not a good deal in america period. Even the cheaper cars have horrible privacy and data collection issues. The fact is that every car company in America is predatory and greedy. Not a single one of them is trying to make a good car. The american way is some engineers come up with a great efficient car, and then money people manipulate it into a monster that just has the illusion of being a good car.
Ask an engineer who's worked with the big three what they think of them and they will talk for hours about essentially how immoral they are.
Also maybe ask yourselves why foreign car companies make cars here, and its not just tariffs. A lot of countries, including Asian ones, have better protections for their citizens and its actually cheaper to hire dumb Americans from flyover state.
Some companies specifically target low income areas for the cheap replaceable labour.
Trying to explain this to all the Corolla owners
The Corolla is not a compact car, is has the same footprint as most small suvs. The yaris was Toyota's compact.
The Civic was what I was thinking of, excuse me.
Practically the default car for high schoolers in my neighborhood.
New civics are as wide as a Corolla but have a slightly longer wheelbase. They're small compared to midsize and full size SUVs but are not compact vehicles.
American vehicle safety standards, combined with the rising number of SUVs on the road, have driven domestic automakers to increase the size of their vehicles overall.
But the Civic is classically considered a compact car. If you drive into a grocery store parking lot labeled "Compact Cars Only", nobody is going to tow you.
Honda increased the size of the civic to meet us consumer wants, and put the fit in it's place. The crash ratings are the same between the two. Americans don't want cheap small cars it's why the civic outsells the fit 10:1.
That's the line. But they also increased the price. This is an age old business trick. When you're running fat margins, increase the size of the meal to sell more of the product. The Civic has always sold well and I haven't seen anything to suggest sales improved as the chassis size increased.
Not against larger vehicles. But its still marginal. If the F-350 plowing into you at 70mph hits a newer model, you'll be just as dead even if the frame suffers less.
American businesses don't want to sell cheap small cars and American consumers are given fewer and fewer options, as you illustrate when you note these vehicles all swelling in size. But when the price of gas jumps, people start piling into Priuses and Focuses and Elantras. Meanwhile, car graveyards are full of Hummers that never left the dealership floor.
Fit sales peaked back in 2008 when gas prices jumped to $6/gal. But the Fit effectively competes with the Civic at a lower price point. Dealers don't want to sell them when Civics move just as fast and guarantee higher returns.
Do you have anything to suggest that keeping the civic small would not have affected sales?
Americans don't buy the small car options they have. If Americans preferred small cars they would buy the small cars available to them. The only time Americans buy small cars is for financial reasons. They prefer the larger civic over the fit. Both have similar crash ratings and reliability ratings so buyers are choosing a larger vehicle at a higher cost due to preference for size.
Dealers are not hiding Fits in the hopes of selling a civic, people are just willing to pay for a larger vehicle.