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Satire/sarcasm doesn't always work cross-culturally
(lemmy.world)
No joke here. I just think stuff like this is interesting.
Again, Your Mileage May Vary. People in the south can be frustratingly indirect because they believe it's polite. Broad strokes, however, Americans do tend to be more on the direct side of things; I reckon we're a little behind Germany (as the exemplar of extreme directness), but much closer to them in directness than we are to, say, England.
Probably more than a little behind Germany. I remember coming across an article about communication pitfalls in the business world that stem from Americans being indirect and using a lot of stock phrases for courtesy.
I remember well-known examples like "how are you" not expressing an interest in how the other person is doing. Or more obscure stuff like "we should meet for coffee soon" expressing not an intention to meet in the near future but a generally positive disposition towards the other person. Or them giving a positive response when someone suggests something they don't want and relying on nonverbal cues to convey their disapproval.
Perhaps it's proximity but as a German I find British indirectness (which often revolves around obvious understatement or sarcasm) to be easier to parse than American indirectness (which revolves around stock phrases). Americans can be a bit Darmok if you're not familiar with a phrase. Thankfully online communication doesn't feature them as much.
Those are all good points. I want to emphasize that this is relative to East Asia. The West as a whole tends to be more direct in its communication style, and you're going to find differences inside of that. Speaking from our experience, we've had the fewest communication problems (in terms of directness being a problem) with German and Dutch kids. We're also not having any issues with the Italian kid. Kind of in the middle is the Russian kid we hosted, who struggled a bit with understanding the how casual Americans are (the affectionate teasing that we do, joking around at any old time, hanging out for the purpose of hanging out, etc. but he eventually got it down like an old pro). At the far end are the east Asian kids. It's pretty consistently an issue to get them to open up, advocate for themselves, tell us if something's wrong, etc. They get there eventually, usually, but it's always the biggest journey for them. I can respect that it isn't easy. I'm sure I'd have a much worse go of trying to adapt to their cultures, based on how hard of a time just dealing with the indirectness of the southeast US.
I just wanted to add, but didn't know where to squeeze it in, that they apparently don't do lame-ass dad jokes in Russia. It was a brand new experience for him, and he mastered it by the time he left. I'm really proud of him, and I hope he's doing okay.
I’m American, studying in Germany with about half my cohort being East Asian students. To me, it seems like we’re square in the middle and I’ll give you an example:
We were asked how we would address it, if we saw our dear roommate finally wearing the sweater they’d spent months knitting and it looked bad. In broad strokes, the Asian students would not address it, the Germans would say they didn’t like the sweater, and the (north and south, not just US) American students would find something they honestly liked to complement and not address anything else.
Some Germans would also find something positive to say about the sweater (“I don’t like the color, but it’s a beautiful knit” or something similar), but they only mentioned that after the American students said their approach, so I’m not sure if that was just social pressure from all the non Germans being shocked at their answer.
These are all totally valid, by the way, it’s just better to be prepared for it. A few days before this class, I showed my old (German) roommate some of my wedding pictures and he told me he didn’t like my lipstick. I still have no idea what the point in that is, but I probably would have taken it better if it had happened after the class discussion.
Edit: I’ve since thought more about this, and given that the others found the American position dishonest (it is intentionally telling only the flattering/socially easier part of your opinion), I can see how each of them would consider theirs the middle position: the Asian students would think that instead of insulting or flattering their roommate, they’d just say nothing; German students would think that instead of saying nothing or exaggerating their positive feelings, they’d just say the truth.
I guess it’s more of a wheel than a line based spectrum
Dutch people are the undisputed champions of telling you shit to your face.
There are two things that I cannot stand, one is people who are intolerant of other cultures, and the other is the Dutch.
Bless your heart.
Good grief. There are times I miss the south, but I had a hard time with that indirect stuff. It was being neurodivergent on hard mode.
Man, it ain't easy with neurotypical
??
Germans are, in my experience, often presented as speaking the most directly. That is, they tend to say exactly what they mean and are less afraid of saying something that might be considered rude or uncomfortable by less direct cultures.
I can't confirm that.
I think this entire "the Americans" and "the Germans" and "the Japanese" thing in this post is probably super productive and leads us somewhere useful!
It's really broad strokes and focused on a snapshot of one element of the contemporary culture of those places. I think there's nothing wrong with acknowledging these differences, no more than acknowledging that different cultures celebrate holidays differently.