sambeastie

Wouldn't commander decks make for pretty slow, boring 1v1 matches though?

That's kind of what I feared. Although I guess in this case, a "bring whatever you got" would wind up being just zero point canlander decks, so maybe that's fine. This is meant to be fairly casual anyway.

Worth more than most copies you find online because the box looks in nice condition, but not especially valuable. They printed a ton of copies of that edition, it was very popular in the 80s.

Maybe consider playing it? I really like the way the Basic Set plays. Very different from the modern game.

Short version: I've just never managed to feel enjoyment while playing any of the ones I've tried. I dont think theyre bad, I just think they dont really click for the way I like to run games. And it has almost nothing to do with combat, which takes up very little table time in my preferred games (combat tends to go no longer than 3 rounds, usually less than 3 minutes each for a table of 6 -- by then, PCs are either victorious, making an expeditious retreat, or dead).

Long version: I just can't find a good rhythm with Monster of the Week, Thirsty Sword Lesbians or Apocalypse World (the three games in this style I've tried). Most of it comes down to how much more mental work it is for me to watch out for move triggers (and memorize the set of moves for each playbook, plus the GM moves. While I already do most of the things the GM moves are meant to encourage in my games of choice, I'm not really thinking of them as I do them -- they feel very fluid, like natural reactions to my players. Hinting at future danger, presenting a hard choice, etc. PbtA games have made it feel much less natural, far more mechanical, and it pulls me out of the natural conversation of a game.

I also dont really like the way it wants me to use dice. Normally, I take the approach that if a PC has the tools, the time and the skills, their desired action automatically succeeds unless it's truly impossible. To put that in PbtA terms, sometimes I want to make a move so soft it's not even there. But PbtA games tend to not accept this, so you have players rolling more often and coming up with mixed success more often than not, which can burn me out and lead the PCs into a death spiral of mixed success, especially when I've gotten worn down and can't come up with anything reasonable to tack on. It's frustrating and anti-fun for me.

And then I think the core malfunction that underscores all of this for me is that PbtA is not really there to emulate a living world, but instead focuses on genre emulation. There's nothing wrong with that, except I've yet to find one that tries to be a genre I like in the way I understand that genre. It seems like my choices are "angsty, sexy, teen drama," "angsty, sexy, adult drama," or "cozy," with not much for me to hang my creative hat on. I didn't watch Buffy, Angel or X-Files growing up, so MotW hit a little soft. I dont care for Apocalypse World's picture of post apocalypse storytelling, so that also didnt really fit for me. And tbh, I can't figure out what TSL is trying to be -- it doesn't really mirror my own queer experience (maybe because I'm not a lesbian?), and doesn't seem to point to any other stereotyped fiction. So it all just feels empty.

Hopefully that explains it, but I love talking about RPGs (even ones I didn't enjoy), so if its confusing I can try to clarify.

Looks cool! Piques my interest in the same way as Nox Archaist -- getting to experience gaming from a time before me, but with some of the rough edges sanded down.

Same here. I was kind of interested in Daggerheart as something to propose as an alternative for my friends who dig the tradgame vibe (I honestly assumed it was going to be very 5e like but with some tweaks and serial numbers filed off), but hearing it's PbtA-like has dashed all my interest.

The SN30 is about as close as you can get to that, I think. I have two, and use them for everything. They're basically SNES controllers with analog sticks. No paddles or other macro buttons. Just ABXY, dpad, start, select, shoulders, triggers and sticks.

They do also make the Micro, but that might be too tiny even for a child. Dpad and face buttons only.

Perhaps an unpopular opinion, but I actually like D&D and much prefer it to every other family of games I've tried (WoD, GURPS, PbtA, etc). What i dont like is the current iteration of D&D, which is why my recommendations are:

Swords & Wizardry Complete: it's OD&D with some of the rough edges sanded off and all the optional material added. Tons of classes, lots of tools for procedural world building, and very easily hackable. It's simpler to teach to a new player, and its more flexible than 5e for experienced players. The tick-tock of the dungeon turn structure makes it easier to keep pace as a GM, and when in doubt, rolling x-in-6 always holds up. If you want a classic dungeon crawler, this is it.

Whitehack: Still D&D but more narrative. Skills are replaced with groups that can give advantages to tasks directly influenced by membership in that group. Magic is super flexible and everyone has access to some form of it, but the "magic user" class gets to just make up their own spells and pay some HP depending on effect size. Great rules for base building, good GM advice for making adventures that aren't dungeon or wilderness crawls (but are structured like those things). The core mechanic minimizes table math so even your players who struggle with addition can play fast. Less deadly than actual old D&D but keeping the same vibe. It's my favorite for those who prefer narrative to mechanics. In a lot of ways, it's D&D rewritten for the way a lot of people actuslly play 5e.

Asking them to bring precons sounds good. UT at least two of the people in that group don't even own any precons. For them, the deckbuilding is the fun part, so they'd just as well not play than run someone else's deck.

I think trying to proxy something more powerful is the last chance here, and if I still don't "get" commander after that, I'll probably just throw the towel in and do something else when they break out the commander decks.

Another friend (not in this pod) pointed out that it's for cards you love, a commander youre dying to build around, etc, so if you have to ask where the fun is, it's not the format for you, and I guess I get that.

I've been thinking about your comment and I started to wonder if maybe the politics is what's actually keeping me from enjoying the format. I've tried some of that but I get swung at anyway, often because I'm the least dangerous/easiest to attack at any given moment (no blockers, no reach, etc). Even as much as I point to the Muldrotha and say "hey I've played that deck and none of you have targeted that player, it could get wild" it never seems to work. If I'm bad at the political game, maybe the rest of the game just kind of crumbles around me? I hear these stories of people "not looking like a threat" but when i try to do the same I think it looks more like I'm a soft target.

I will definitely proxy those and test out this version of the deck next time we play. And if it feels better, I'll get the real ones.

Hm...we may be onto something, then...