We don't live in a perfect world. Someone is going to be president for the next 4 years, and at this stage of the game we have 2 distinct choices.

Also, what you called half-assed someone else might call the democracy process. Just because YOU want something doesn't mean I want the same thing. Your vision for how to solve Palestine or Ukraine or improve wealth equality might be vastly different from mine. Just because you don't get exactly what you want doesn't mean the system is useless or not worth participating in. If you were to get exactly what you want, then I'd be getting walked over. If I get exactly what I want, then you'd say you are not being heard.

The only fair system is to elect a big-tent party and then work through dialog on trying to reach either consensus or fair compromise on the various topics. But we won't have that option if we let the fascists get control and do their Project 2025 thing while ignoring us.

Here is another take. You vote for both:

1. The group that most closely resembles what you want AND
2. The group that most likely will listen to your requests during the administration

If there are things you want changed, Nov 5 is not the last day but the beginning. The next president will make decisions for 4 years, and every decision is influenced by people and our voices.

Ask yourself, between Harris and Trump, which administration is most likely to want the things I want, and which is most likely to listen and be influenced by my side of political views and the people I support?

For me, the answer is a hard NO on Trump, and a pretty solid Yes on Harris.

Like the other thread abut guns. Sure, the Dems talk about wanting gun reform and it never gets done because they don't have a super majority in Congress. But the GOP is 100% against it and will never contribute. Which side is more likely to do anything to help the reform I want to see? 4 years of Dems is a good amount of time to press for issues and seek some improvements. If I let the GOP have 4 more years, we are not even going to talk about change until the next election.

Those that are willing to sit out an election because the Dems are not perfect, are inflicting the worst candidate on all of us and themselves. Don't you dare later complain about school shootings, wealth inequality, tax cuts for the rich, abuse of queer folks, women's rights, international inhumane policy. Don't inflict Trump on us and then pretend to care about our issues or be on our side. If you sit out, you've picked a side.

No. Half of what you wrote is disconnected from what I'm saying. So let's reset.

The present: Israel lives with a terrorist group next door that is constantly launching rockets at them and planning and executing genocide on the people of Israel. That needs to be addressed. Israel is sick of it and they decided to remove Hamas.

The US weapon guardrails are mainly to define what an appropriate use of each weapon type would be. Lots of the weapons provided to Israel are not allowed for use in Gaza due to the type of damage they cause deemed incompatible with the type of conflict. If the US pulled out of these weapon deals, all the weapons (bombs) that are currently banned would be on the menu to Israel. If you think Gaza is taking damage now, consider that the damage so far has been hampered through limitations imposed by the West.

The US supports protecting civilians, ending terrorism, and finding a permanent solution to this eternal animosity. We are the ones imposing limitations on war actions and weapons, and forcing in food convoys.

The fastest route is to end the Hamas rule as quickly as possible and transition to rebuilding Gaza and establishing Palestinian statehood. That's what the US is currently working on. I have not seen anyone here propose a solution that would move faster towards enduring peace.

Whether people here are informed enough to recognize it, we are currently on the best path available towards progress in these centuries-old conflicts in the Middle East. The other half-baked low-information ideas proposed in this forum are not better than what the US is doing right now. "Just stop selling them weapons" is not only not going to work, it's a dumb idea that would make things worse.

The future: Low information actors like the people in this forum are at fault for the situation that we are in now. These conflicts started long ago, and we prevented a resolution and made them worse with the naive calls to cease intervention. Hamas took control in the the 2000s because of people like you naively helping them on.

The only way to have a better future is to stop kicking the can down the road. And the US is not direct party to this conflict, so we can't unilaterally do anything to change it. Again, backing out of weapons agreements would only make Israel bomb Gaza twice as hard, and then invite a larger war in the region.

You think our difference is that I'm ok with forgiving a little "genocide" from my elected officials. NO. I'm old enough to have been through several cycles of this Israel v terrorism crap. Hamas is mostly at fault for our current state of affairs, and I understand these issues enough to recognize that my elected officials are working on the best available course of action given the impossible nature of this type of eternal hate and genocidal intent from all parties towards each other in the Middle East.

You "stop the weapons" guys want some magical way to do better, save more lives and end conflicts faster. But when asked what's the plan, we get crickets. "Just get Israel to stop and back off" is exactly how we ended up with Hamas terrorizing Gaza this century and using civilians as shields - learn the history circa 2005-7.

Today, the real plan is political, hard and messy. The "no weapons" plan has no merit, no future, and will only makes things worse. That's why the current admin doesn't spend much time taking advice from tiktok-tier ideas.

I want my US elected officials to protect civilians and seek to end the eternal wars in that region. That's why I want them to ignore the no-plan ideas, and continue with the difficult work they are already doing to try to find a real and sustainable solution.

Yes, I trust Harris with the next 4 years of this situation way more than I'd trust this low-information forum. I don't see Harris as "the better of 2 bad choices," I see Harris as having a real plan that makes sense and is way better than any low-info ideas I've read here.

Also, in case the nuance is getting lost since we don't all get our information from the same sources,

When the US sells weapons to Israel, the purpose is to ensure peace in the region by helping them hold a line of defense against military attacks from antagonistic countries; and in the case of Hamas, for the anti-terrorism operation of removing Hamas from power in Gaza, so that Palestinians can pursue self-determination free from terrorist rule.

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Also, because around these parts the echo chambers are deafening,

https://www.pewresearch.org/2024/03/21/majority-in-u-s-say-israel-has-valid-reasons-for-fighting-fewer-say-the-same-about-hamas/

Most Americans are against the suffering of civilians in Gaza, but understand that under Hamas rule the Gaza people are screwed, and long-lasting peace is impossible, so there's significant value in removing Hamas from power so that we can drive towards a better future. This is the purpose for which we continue to sell any weapons to Israel that may be used in the Gaza operation, and we use the agreements to enforce guardrails to minimize civilian casualties.

In summary, If you think the Biden admin is supporting genocide, I wanted to point out that as far as the US leadership understands it, the weapons sales are intended for the purpose of driving towards peace, minimizing civilian casualties, and improving conditions for people in the region in the long-term. Whether you agree with that vision or not.

What's unclear is the alternative long-term solution that the "stop supporting Israel" crowd have mapped out for the region. What exactly is supposed to get better if the US pulls out and washes its hands of peace deals and weapons agreements, so that Israel and Hamas can double down on bombing each other to the last drop of blood?

Someone explain to me the 10 year plan that the "stop selling weapons" side has envisions for the Gaza region. Because I know Harris wants to end the war, rebuild Gaza, and force a permanent peace by leading international negotiations for Palestinian statehood. I cannot imagine a workable pathway that's more pro peace and pro civilians.

cutting off aid money and weapons sales

I don't understand this line of thinking.

First, Israel doesn't need top-tier modern weapons to attack a defenseless civilian population. If Israel's goal was outright genocide as it's being put, they could buy mid-tier weapons from any manufacturer for that purpose.

Second, if the US stops selling US-grade weapons to Israel, that will signal to the region that Israel is open to military attacks, which might result in a larger scale multi-country war that would dwarf the Gaza conflict.

Those that care about the lives of innocent civilians in the region should prefer that the weapons sold to Israel come with Western strings attached and conditions as part of the weapons agreements, and should also care that the region doesn't descend into another 1960s-70s war era but with more modern and powerful weapons.

See on US weapons:

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2023-12-11/israel-must-comply-with-laws-of-war-under-us-weapons-assistance-policy

The U.S. expects every country receiving its military assistance to use it "in full compliance with international humanitarian law and the laws of war, and Israel is no exception," State Department spokesperson Matthew Miller told a news briefing on Monday.

Enforcing the Western weapons rules is politically complex, but not having any rules on those weapons would only embolden Israel's operation in Gaza. I hope people around here will come to understand that every time you call for the US to pull out of weapon deals in Israel, what you are advocating for is to remove the weapons restrictions the West imposes on Israel.

https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-trump-afghanistan-troops-killed-659053265479

There were 63 US military deaths in Afghanistan during the Trump administration. This piece of shit goes around saying that nobody died in that operation during his watch, and talks about how Biden cost the US THIRTEEN lives during the sundown of the Afghanistan war started by Republicans - a series of wars that go back to the first part of the century and sank the country in unimaginable debt.

Biden will be remembered for putting his foot down on the forever wars. And he will be remembered for eviscerating Russia's military and strengthening our EU alliance, using only a fraction of the US military national budget and without putting a single American solider in harm's way.

This piece of shit thinks that's a bad record for Biden, and he is going to go around lying about it, pretending he is making some powerful points about which parties does most to keep us safe.

Who starts unwinnable wars? Who has a barrage of "unavoidable" incidents on their watch? From terrorist attacks to pandemics to historical financial crashes and absurd deficits, it's always a Republican having to make excuses ... "who could have thought the terrorists were plotting and attack, or that the war on terror would take decades" ... "who could have known the virus wasn't going to disappear by April like a miracle."

Somehow the GOP that keeps us safe and is "best" at the economy are the same asswipes that can't protect us from attacks, start wildly misguided wars, and sink us into unpayable debt planted squarely on the shoulders of our youth.

But it's all somehow Harris' fault now. And this piece of shit is going to tell us why by fabricating some nonsense about the Biden admin, and lying about his party's record and his own.

The Mooch was one of the many officials to come and go in the Trump admin. Anthony Scaramucci, affectionately known as "The Mooch," lasted 10 days of chaos before being shown the door.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40806586

Since then, the mooch is accepted as a unit of time equal to 10 days in the metric system, or 11 days if measuring in imperial (his actual term was something like 10.6 days). The defacto use of a mooch for measuring time in the US is the metric 10 days per mooch.

The mooch is an appropriate unit of time to measure the duration of failed political positions. Another unit of time that serves this purpose is the lesser-known British Truss, which is 49 days imperial. That one is often reserved for failed heads of state.

JD Vance was nominated on July 15, so by Aug 16 he has latest 32 days so far. That would be 3.2 mooches. I guess this meme was made to stay fresh for a few days, optimistically presuming Vance will make it to at least 4 full mooches.

Exactly. She worked for a living while paying for her education, and once she was educated she advanced to bigger things. Somehow they want to frame that as a negative mark on her, when it should be the opposite. They can't celebrate someone working hard and doing it on her own because she plays for the opposite team.

https://www.phillymag.com/news/2019/09/14/donald-trump-at-wharton-university-of-pennsylvania/

It’s rare for a professor to disparage the intelligence of a student, but according to attorney Frank DiPrima, who was close friends with professor William T. Kelley for 47 years, the prof made an exception for Donald Trump, at least in private. “He must have told me that 100 times over the course of 30 years,” says DiPrima [...] “I remember the inflection of his voice when he said it: ‘Donald Trump was the dumbest goddamn student I ever had!’” He would say that [Trump] came to Wharton thinking he already knew everything, that he was arrogant and he wasn’t there to learn.” Kelley, who passed away in 2011 at age 94, taught marketing at Wharton for 31 years, retiring in 1982.

He said he aced the dementia test, he boasted to anyone that would listen. He said he has no issues spotting a cartoon giraffe or even remembering 5 words in a row.

Do you speak of the documented cases of rape of adult women, such as the case he lost in court and the story told by his wife; or are you referring to the several credible accusations of abuse of minors?

Biden stepped down before getting the official nomination. Trump was nominated by his party last week. That makes Trump officially the oldest candidate nominated by a political party.