"You can't point to Sweden or Finland as answers either, because they have the highest per-capita drug deaths of other euro nations."
Dis you? Are you the 10 second Tom from 50 first dates that just forgets shit as soon as he clicks post? Lol.
I'm quoting you and you're calling it a straw man?
You're tripping over yourself to play the victim. Just go back under the bridge you troll.
The ol' we can't save everyone so why save anyone argument. Bold strategy cotton.
Also, since we're talking about drug deaths do you know what county has the highest IN THE WORLD?
The United States, so yeah if we can copy Finland's homework and reduce our homeless by 435k, why wouldn't we?
Oh that's right the guy on the Internet gate keeping who can call him a selfish asshole says it might not work.
P.S. Finland had 253 people die of drug overdoses in 2023 with a population of 5.5 million.
(4.6 deaths per 100,000 people)
The US had 105,000 people die of drug overdoses in 2023 with a population of 335 million.
(31.3 deaths per 100,000 people)
I gave specific examples of countries that have reduced homelessness effectively and humanely (Finland, Norway, etc ), cited my sources and multiple solutions (not just housing, although it is a large part of fixing checks notes HOMELESSNESS?), and replied to your comment of nothing evil happening in the world?
Here's another article for you to not read or comprehend:
https://pulitzercenter.org/stories/look-finlands-housing-first-initiative
Spoiler Alert: As I know reading isn't your favorite, their solution is called Housing First (it also contains many of your same ideas that I also mentioned below). Well except for locking them up in asylums because that's as cruel as it is stupid and ineffective.
Double Spoiler Alert: As a singular example (of which there are many), Finland has a third of the homeless population percentage that we do in this country, and our GDP is 83x that of Finland. You'll find that when you "RE-READ, with an attention to understanding what we're talking about instead of reading with the intention of rebuttal".
If ignorance is bliss, you must be the happiest person on the planet. I have experienced homelessness, and I've also helped lift people out of it. Can you say the same?
It's obvious you've tried nothing and you're all out of ideas. We don't need to give them housing but we need to lock them up because many are criminals?
I'm arguing to help our fellow men and tax billionaires to give support to those in need and treat them with the same dignity and humanity we would anyone else.
We are not the same. I hope you find peace and faith in your fellow man again, until then I wish you luck on continuing to punch down to those in need on the Internet and sucking the toes of the richest man alive.
TL;DR: Homelessness is a multi-faceted issue that requires a complex and thoughtful solution including strong social support system, treatment, counseling, EMPATHY, and yeah a fucking roof over their head.
P.S. I don't HAVE to disagree with everything Elon says, I GET the distinct pleasure to because of how incredibly stupid and corrupt he is. After all, fighting and opposing Nazis is as American as Apple Pie.
That's a good and thoughtful question, with no easy answer.
My opinion is I don't believe you can force someone to receive help, but you can incentivise them through rehabilitation, job training, counseling and housing.
At the end of the day, we need to respect their rights and not infringe on them. If they don't want help, then they are part of the .06% that chooses homelessness.
It's like the old saying goes, you can lead a horse to water but you can't explain empathy and compassion to him on the Internet.
If billionaires firing average citizens and restricting our benefits/rights to enrich themselves isn't evil? What is?
If cutting cancer research for cancer patients while pretending to care about a single cancer survivor isn't evil? What is?
If illegally detaining and deporting US citizens and immigrants without due process and ignoring the rule of law so they can be tortured? What is?
If MILLIONS of people around the globe dying of disease to give the richest man in the world a tax break isn't evil? What is?
If you actively are the richest man in the world and you wake up every day with enough money to end childhood poverty, diseases, and illness and you actively choose not to? If that isn't evil, what is?
Curious to see what your definition of evil is, and how quickly you will move the goal post when we get there?
Make it make sense to me, take all the time you need.
My dose of reality is realizing that other countries have already solved this problem. This isn't a closed book test.
We as a country are actively putting the needs of Elon Musk over the needs of 435,000 people sleeping on the streets at night.
Your quote is actually brilliant, because the other interpretation is when people HAVE intention to do something but do nothing. That's exactly what I'm arguing against, doing nothing.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"
Absolutely, and thank you for your reply. Learning and expansion of ideas and thoughts only comes from good conversation and discourse. That's what makes this such a complex and difficult issue.
There is an inevitability of homelessness in a country is unavoidable, yes. Just like the inevitable need for criminal justice programs to detain, deter, and rehabilitate those who break the law.
No argument from me on the facts, there WILL be homelessness and crime in any society. (This is for my sunshine and rainbows friend up top also).
So let's figure out how much that SHOULD be:
https://www.greaterchange.co.uk/post/which-country-handles-homelessness-the-best
Finland currently has a homelessness rate of .06% (2023) of their population. So let's say that's the baseline when you give people a fair shot, benefits, and treat them with care, and the remaining of those people that won't take help when offered.
The United States has a rate THREE times that at .19% homelessness. Despite having a GDP output, 83 times as large as the US.
Since I went to public school, percentages make me woozy so let's put it in whole numbers.
636,500 fellow citizens are homeless in the US (.19%).
If we adopted Finland's (already proved 35+ year plan) we could get that down to 201,000 over time. Heck if it takes 35 years as well, at least we're helping them.
That's 435,500 fellow citizens (Or a city the size of Cincinnati) that are sleeping on the street tonight, so that ONE MAN Elon Musk can pay less taxes.
Fellow Americans, until we vote these billionaires out of office and tax them (oh I don't know, at least as much as you and I pay) we are either ignoring the issue or complicit and I for one don't want to be either.
TL;DR: This is just one example why we should lift up those below us, and not be pessimistic about our fellow man.
Most of our homeless want a fair shot, mental health counseling, and rehabilitation.
We need to advocate for them and help them just like if we were reading this sleeping on the street.
You're almost there, and I sincerely value your input. Let's go on this journey together...
What if we treated them like human beings in need of care and rehabilitation instead of criminals who can't "hold down a job"?
Why do they not make it out of poverty?
Is it because they can't afford to? Why is that?
Is it because they can't afford to make ends meet on a minimum wage job? Can't find affordable housing? Can't pay for child care, counseling, health care, or rehab?
What if we helped them get rid of their addiction and didn't jail them for it?
If we're going to write off an entire vulnerable demographic of society, we as the functional members have an obligation to ensure that life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are available to all. Not just those who can afford it.
Many other first world countries do this successfully already, the problem with our country comes down to the money being made keeping these people locked up and incarcerated.
Look up Norway, Finland, Sweden and their response to crime and rehabilitation. It works, if you focus on helping people instead of helping profits.
Imagine a world where those in need got the billions of dollars in tax payer subsidies that Elon Musk gets?
Alright I'll bite, even if Hairplug Himmler is right (and let's be perfectly clear, he's not).
Why wouldn't we as Americans want to help our fellow citizens overcome drug use, treat mental illness, and help rehabilitation efforts on their behalf?
ESPECIALLY IF THEY ARE "VIOLENT" and "on the street". Wouldn't we want to help them get off the streets?
Wouldn't that make us safer, happier, healthier, and dare I say... Great Again? Wouldn't that protect citizens and police officers alike at a lower cost than incarceration? (Spoiler alert it would, but there's no private for profit companies offering this service).
Wouldn't these people become tax payers? Employees contributing to society? Become future homebuyers and start a family?
These empathy lacking neo-fascist clowns can't stop punching down to those less fortunate (while claiming the lords name in vain) and I can't wait for the day we get the opportunity to match their empathy as they head to prison (preferably one in El Salvador).
You are once again 100% incorrect. Also, the horse is already dead why are you still beating it?
The rest of Europe is NOT doing much better.
However you won't respond to facts, won't argue a point intelligently, but you'll cry wolf at being faced with data and discourse that shows you don't understand what you are talking about at the most basic level.
Once again here's some data supporting my claim (still waiting for you to produce ANYTHING to support any of your claims) that you won't read, consider, or understand:
(Find me the "rest of Europe" on any chart or article)
https://ourworldindata.org/homelessness
https://www.developmentaid.org/news-stream/post/157797/homelessness-statistics-in-the-world
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_homeless_population
You have yet to counter ANY facts with anything other than your feelings, gatekeeping, or chastising and accusing me of not knowing what I'm talking about.
Call me a bad debater and spin your positions until you get dizzy, it won't change the fact that you aren't operating in reality and your feelings aren't more important than actual tangible data that is EASILY obtained through a quick Google search of how this problem actually gets solved by other countries.
Asylums aren't housing, they are a form of incarceration that objectively doesn't work. I don't understand why this concept is so hard for you to grasp?
It's really simple:
Treat people how you'd like to be treated should you ever be in their situation.
It sounds like you have joined the sunshine and rainbows team saying that rehabilitation and mental health counseling is needed. Welcome, we're glad to have you!
I firmly agree, so let's chat about homelessness. Something you have more opinions on rather than a factual understanding of what causes homelessness and equally as important, what lifts people out.
If you were homeless right now, would you prefer to be locked up in an Asylum or have a chance to have a roof over your head to get a job and get back on your feet?
See how easy that is?
Stop using whataboutism to call many of them criminals (which you said), and dehumanizing them (which by the way was the original post in the article).
It's okay to be wrong, heck it's even okay to be stupid. It's NOT okay to marginalize an entire group of vulnerable citizens while they sleep on the street and you're comfortable behind your keyboard.
P.S. Your feelings and opinions are not a credible source, sorry bud.