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Table of various levels of piracy (fedia.io)

submitted 7 months ago by Rentlar@lemmy.ca to c/piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com

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Here's a table I adapted from Louis Rossman's video on the levels of piracy, grey areas and his morals and ethics on it. (spreadsheet file)

I tried to condense each rank and make it less about a specific type of media like CD audio or DVD video, along with a table of simplified characteristics of each situation. Of course more levels can be added and there are many situations not covered. This hierarchy is simply the way Louis ordered it from more to less justifiable; he respects people can think about it differently and I do too. He suggests that he doesn't really care about people that pirate without giving a shit about creators, and that he only has a problem with people who aren't honest with themselves about their motivations.

Setting legality aside, what 'level of piracy' is morally or ethically acceptable to you?

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[-] otp@sh.itjust.works 3 points 7 months ago

Does piracy for the sake of preserving media (even if countless others are also preserving it) count for number 15?

Generally, I'm good with 1~5 or so, but there are lots of legit reasons there.

[-] Rentlar@lemmy.ca 2 points 7 months ago

Louis' list comes from the perspective of moral in the sense that "were the people that provided you entertainment value provided appropriate compensation" which is why the list is ordered this way.

Looking at it in the lens of preserving items for the common good, this could take form of #1 or #3, where you bought a copy but you don't want it to degrade or fade into obscurity, but it could also be #15 where you just don't want to lose it and it doesn't matter to you whether the creator should have benefited.

[-] otp@sh.itjust.works 2 points 7 months ago

That's fair! I imagine there's also somewhere in the middle where they want to pay the creator, but have no way to do so, or no way to know who it is.

I mean, so you pay the studio? The current rights' holder? The creative? (Hard when a piece of media is made by a team that isn't together anymore)

[-] HotsauceHurricane@lemmy.one 3 points 7 months ago

I see a whole lotta “yes” in that graph. 🏴‍☠️

[-] Zedstrian@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 7 months ago

Depending on the situation, up to #13 for me. A caveat to that might be whether or not the creator has appropriately priced their product so as to justly compensate themselves without charging consumers excessively. While I had it in my Steam library already, Factorio deserves to be pirated for breaking with the standard practice of not raising game prices with inflation. Same with Sega's anti-consumer move to remove the Sonic ROMs from the Sega Genesis collection to boost sales of Sonic Origins.

[-] Melody@lemmy.one 2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Ranks 1 through 9 Is Not Piracy as you've paid for your copy in some manner typically. Rank 11 & 12 is not piracy

Ranks 10, 13, and 14 are JUSTIFIABLE Piracy. You are free to debate the merits of doing these things or choose not to do them yourself.

Rank 15 is blatant piracy and is arguably socially unacceptable and fully subject to full penalty of law. Don't be that guy!

My ethics are simple; You must fulfill one of two conditions:

You pay for a legitimate copy (license) in some format. How much you pay does not matter as long as the transaction is for a permanent (indefinite time length) license and not blatantly a rental. This legitimate copy does not have to be purchased directly from the IP Rights holder or their designated and authorized (re)sellers.
You are 100% unable to obtain a reasonable, purchasable, legal copy in your city of residence through any physical or digital means. Any Digital options available to you must not be reasonably obtainable due to unreasonable cost of buy-in.

Notably:

Both rules exclude the ability to "Rent" a piece of content from somewhere, "Borrow" it from a library and "Buy" it online from a digital market place that is exclusive to a piece of technology you do not own and do not plan to, and would not elect to purchase.

As an example; any and all content that is exclusively available on iTunes or exclusively through using an iDevice is not reasonably obtainable; I do not own an Apple device, I do not wish to buy or own one. I would be within my rights to pirate any content I see as desirable. I despise Apple and refuse to use their products; so I am within my rights to pirate anything that requires you to use an Apple device or account to access the right to purchase it.

This would not be acceptable if the content were available through Google Play; as I already own an Android Smartphone, and the marketplace is reasonably accessible and reasonably priced in most cases.

This does not include situations where accessing the ability to purchase content requires a large number of convoluted steps. For example; I shouldn't be required to mail in a letter only to obtain a temporary credential necessary to access the purchasing front-end, submit more personally identifying information than necessary to fill an order in an account creation process, or be required to call a specific phone number to support to ask for an exception to a policy or permission to purchase or retain access to a purchase.

As a final clarification: Streaming == Renting.

No 'ifs', 'ands', or 'buts' about it. A streaming service is renting access to a specific batch of content for an agreed upon price, paid at a regular interval. This is not a purchase. Instead it is a patronage agreement.

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[-] Megaman_EXE@beehaw.org 2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

I don't know where I would draw the line...I guess if the content creator is small I would prefer to support if I can.

Generally speaking I don't pirate much. The main thing is probably anime/manga but that's due to accessibility/quality issues. But I end up buying merch usually so I guess I'm supporting in other ways.

I think the only other thing I've pirated in recent years is the sims 4 because holy moly their pricing is insane. Oh I guess also 3ds/wiiu games now that the shop went down

[-] MonkderZweite@feddit.ch 1 points 7 months ago

Pirating DLC i guess is no issue.

[-] doom_and_gloom@lemmy.ml 1 points 7 months ago

Anything below 12 (i.e., 1-11) is private property extremism.

Think twice before considering them legitimate stances in political discourse, imo. They are immoral and we see the consequences of it every day.

Setting legality aside, what ‘level of piracy’ is morally or ethically acceptable to you?

12-15

[-] Rentlar@lemmy.ca 2 points 7 months ago

It's important to be cognizant of various worldwide perspectives, considering the part of your comment on political discourse.

Some countries don't care that everyone pirates everything and anything.

Others, like Japan for example, have copyright ingrained both in the laws and in the culture. Some think "right clicking and saving an image on a public website" is theft. It's part of the reason Sony and Nintendo are so anal about copyright and how there are no Manga sharing sites located in Japan.

So not only the laws different everywhere what is legitimate discourse changes too.

[-] doom_and_gloom@lemmy.ml 2 points 7 months ago

You were not asking about what is legally acceptable. Using laws to determine what is normal is the same logic as enlightened centrism. Th Overton Window is not defines legitimacy or morality.

Looking at the gamut of possible positions, private property is on the right. As it is currently practiced, including intellectual property, it is on the extreme right.

Discourse normalizing this extreme-right state does not serve the common person. It serves the corporate and private capital interests exclusively by increasing inequality and socioeconomic stratification. This is immoral, which is what you asked about. It is also frequently illegitimate because destroys democracies in favor of capture by special interests, and it is supported through deceptive tactics that keep populations under control.

You mention Japan, where neoliberal private property laws are more mature than most countries. That's a great example. Their political system is broken more than most, and that's how we get such extreme ideologies put into practice. Many Japanese citizens recognize the illegitimacy of their democracy, and as such voting and organizing rates are extremely low. For many citizens, the greatest political progress they've seen in decades was Abe's assassination. That's exactly what you get when you delegitimize your government through extreme positions pushed by special interests.

[-] Rentlar@lemmy.ca 1 points 7 months ago

Yes the LibDems there are right wing neo-liberals but it's not just corporations driving it. Insofar as I've talked to actual people in Japan whom I know personally and consumed Japanese media this is the basis of how I know what the overall politic is like. A lot of apathy, care about tax cuts above all else, and nationalism.

[-] doom_and_gloom@lemmy.ml 1 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Eh, plenty of Japanese people are very anti-nationalist. The rich and powerful are nationalist, though, and that's why the conservative Buddhists have held a mandate for decades. Corporate Japan does support these parties by a vast majority, and that is also the group with the most exposure to foreigners.

The anarchists were strong in Japan until they were finally crushed in WWII, and leftism was never allowed to reorganize afterward, which is strongly tied to the manifestation of Japanese counter-culture and disenfranchisement. People with these beliefs still exist widely - they simply have no power or money. Nonetheless they are present enough that they manage to support many left-wing artists, in the fringe and also sometimes in the mainstream. For example Miyazaki is still beloved for Nausicaa, despite him being considered an anti-Japanese traitor by the right. Left-wing media gets more and more flooded out by neoliberal swill as it gains international appeal, unfortunately, and overt leftist themes have become rare since the 90s.

The US did not end the empire when Japan was defeated in WWII. Instead, they used their control over the family so they could be used to keep the population obedient under occupation. Then, fearing leftists in the Cold War, they found that this pre-established political power was closest to their interests and ideals. They kept the current strong in doing so. Even so anti-empire sentiment was strong among the powerless masses for some time after their defeat. But it had no real basis or power because the old powers (and their amassed private property) remained, and now the families attached to the defeated empire are once again ruling with a near-mandate. Unsurprisingly, this occurred after the corporate class grew inequally powerful during the economic miracle. In other words, their government is extreme compared to the ideology of a large number of its population. But that population is largely distinct from the group with the most exposure to the Anglosphere, and largely distinct from the groups greenlighting mass media projects from around 2000 onward.

[-] Rentlar@lemmy.ca 1 points 7 months ago

I get ya, American anti-communism indoctrination is involved. Thanks for the treatise. Back to the topic at hand.

One big difference in Japan vs. North America/Europe is that second hand music, videos and video games are waaaaaaay easier to find at reasonable non-scalper prices.

[-] doom_and_gloom@lemmy.ml 1 points 7 months ago

Yeah, there's a cultural difference regarding the value/desirability of used things. Including cars, and houses although those depreciate for additional reasons.