this post was submitted on 01 Jul 2023

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YSK: If you're on Lemmy.World or Sh.itjust.works you should not subscribe to any Beehaw communities (lemmy.world)

submitted 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) by SteelBeard@lemmy.world to c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world

161 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Why YSK: Beehaw defederated from Lemmy.World and Sh.itjust.works effectively shadowbanning anyone from those instances. You will not be able to interact with their users or posts.

Edit: A lot of people are asking why Beehaw did this. I want to keep this post informational and not color it with my personal opinion. I am adding a link to the Beehaw announcement if you are interested in reading it, you can form your own views. https://beehaw.org/post/567170

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[–] Boozilla@lemmy.world 16 points 2 years ago (3 children)

It's important to note that the admins of beehaw are not happy about this solution, either. And they hope to refederate once they have better tools and enough mods / admins to deal with it.

They point wasn't to shadowban, that was a side effect. The point was to protect their member--who specifically wanted a certain type of safe friendly instance--from hostile weirdos sending dick pics and stuff like that. Nobody's happy with the situation, but it's the best they could do under the circumstances with the resources they have.

I also don't think it's wrong for instances to have their own strong rules and preferences. This is one of the GOOD things about the Fediverse. The software features and how people use lemmy will catch up eventually.

As for the confusion / chaos around multiple/redundant/competing communities and so on...that will get better over time as people figure things out. Honestly it's not that different than reddit with all of its splinter subs like "true-" whatever.

[–] masterspace@kbin.social 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

As for the confusion / chaos around multiple/redundant/competing communities and so on...that will get better over time as people figure things out. Honestly it's not that different than reddit with all of its splinter subs like "true-" whatever.

That's true for just the duplication problem, but the defederation / shadow banning issue is not one that reddit has and is pretty confusing and poor user experience for new users coming in.

[–] SeeJayEmm@lemmy.procrastinati.org 3 points 2 years ago (4 children)

This isn't reddit 2.0. It's a different platform with different mechanics that hasn't had over a decade to mature.

Change is hard. People need to learn to adapt.

[–] rbits@lemmy.fmhy.ml 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Right, but even non-reddit users would be confused by it. When everyone advertises lemmy as seamlessly integrating with all the different instances, it doesn't matter what instance your account is on, this definitely is not that.

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[–] krackalot@vlemmy.net 12 points 2 years ago (4 children)

If you don't want to color with your opinion, use a different word than shadowban. They didn't do this with malice as the connotations of that word would imply.

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[–] LeZero@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (8 children)

It's getting pretty tiring to see people feeling entitled to have access to any and all communities of the Fediverse, if the people paying for the running cost of the Beehaw instance wants to defederate (for whatever reason, "good" or "bad"), that's their prerogative.

If you really want access to their content, apply to join, otherwise sign up to any of the dozens of lemmy instances federated to the rest of the fediverse.

One of the great things about the Fediverse in general is choice, user and instance admin can choose how they want to interact, and are not beholden to a company or group which can take any arbitrary decisions they want.

TLDR : Instance admin are entitled to how they want to run it, you're not.

[–] majere@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago

Ah, in less than 48 hours we've come full circle.

What beautiful dawns await us.

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[–] ItsaB3AR@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Disclaimer: pretty new to Lemmy a federation (older than this account though).

From what I gather, defederation is supposed to be a function of this whole system, but intended to cut off whole instances that refuse to moderate or are active cesspools. In saying that, I don’t understand Beehaw cutting off two of the other biggest instances. I know they have a weird mentality over there of no downvotes and saw some odd conversations condemning someone’s political views while admitting to not know the person at all (dafuq?).

It seems to me it would make more sense to block a single community rather than the whole instance.

Maybe they want a walled garden, but as new people come in and want as much content as possible to show that this is a better venue than Reddit, to me they give off the wrong message.

Am I mistaken somehow? Anyone able to enlighten me?

[–] dagwood@vlemmy.net 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I recommend reading Beehaw’s statement: https://beehaw.org/comment/263590

As it is just text on a screen, I think there are more and less generous ways to read the post. But I think a lack of scalable mod tools (to combat an internet-sized influx of “bad actors”) is a reasonable (and hopefully temporary) rationale for defederation.

[–] ItsaB3AR@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 years ago (5 children)

Having read this, I get what they’re going for, but also question the venue a bit.

With Lemmy being about federation, it sounds like they want to have a de federated mini Lemmy to themselves where they can decide who is allowed in or not. Not that that is a bad thing, if there’s a demand for it, but I think it’s different than what every other instance is about and maybe would be better as something like a Discord server (or FOSS alternative).

Again just my 2c, I just know I’m looking for a better quality alternative to Reddit, and an isolated instance isn’t my cup of tea.

[–] millie@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 2 years ago

Choice is the point of federation.

[–] Wereduck@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 2 years ago

I think a thing to note is that their community was here and well established well before rexxit. Rexxit put a lot of stress on many instances and their moderation ability, so it makes perfect sense that they might prioritize protecting their established community from abuse over being connected to every instance that intends to be a reddit alternative. There are plenty of instances they remain federated to that share their more careful moderation.

I expect that some time in the future they may reconnect with some more popular instances, as rexxit slows down and modding tools improve.

The nice thing about federation is you can choose to join more or less connected instances depending on what type of moderation you are looking for.

[–] NicoCharrua@lemmy.ca 3 points 2 years ago (4 children)

I disagree, they definitely don't want their own mini Lemmy. They want a safe space they are happy with, and defederation the only way they can do that with Lemmy's current mod tools.

Lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works make up about 20% of the acitve users in the threadiverse (source). That is a lot, and it sucks, but it's far off from making beehaw an isolated instance.

Imo for now new users should be discouraged from joining Beehaw, lemmy.world, and sh.itjust.works, since all the content can be seen from other instances anyways.

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[–] HKayn@dormi.zone 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

It's important to remember that federation is just a feature in the end. As an instance administrator, you're absolutely free to choose who to federate with.

I don't see anyone giving Hexbear any shit for not federating with anybody.

[–] Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works 3 points 2 years ago (2 children)

People are just salty because they have some of the largest communities.

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[–] CarnivorousCouch@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (3 children)

Eh, I have accounts on both instances. I've appreciated the active moderation on some Beehaw communities - I'd rather discuss LGBTQ issues on Beehaw than other instances, for example. But I also like to see more content elsewhere, so I've got my Lemmy.world account too. It's pretty easy to account hop when using an app. It's reminds me of being a member of multiple hobbyist forums, in a way.

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[–] Snapz@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago

What are you talking about? The apps all allow multi login. So why is this an issue?

[–] BendyLemmy@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago (2 children)

I could just log in to BeeHaw...

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[–] Damaniel@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago (10 children)

And this is why the fediverse will never work out - if I gamble wrong and set up shop on an instance that gets in a pissing match with other ones, I either have to make an account elsewhere (and then have to do it again later the next time two instances defederate each other) or live with only seeing some of my subscribed content.

[–] theDoctorJtD@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

There are already conversations about Nomadic Identities and what that would look like. Until that is done, I agree with you that there are going to be some issues, such as this. The fact that this is on their radar is very promising.

https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy-ui/issues/1571

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