Given that Russian doctrine is all about disinformation and deflection, is he actually worth listening to until there is something on the table?
this post was submitted on 14 Feb 2024
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I mean, Oncophage has been on the table for 16 years, I think it it was the world's first oncovaccine.
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1098972/000117184311003742/newsrelease.htm
It's a good stance to take with all "scientific breakthrough" articles. Poopsci is notorious for overhyping and just flat out misrepresentation. It's where the notorious "10 more years until fusion" meme came from. The actual engineers working on the project weren't the ones saying that.
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There is never going to be a "cancer vaccine". Cancer isn't a single disease, it is more like a whole category. It is like claiming you are going to develop a vaccine against any and all respiratory diseases or against all kinds of heart problems.
Cuba has vaccines for different cancers already
It's plural in the story
Yes, but it is also not going to be a whole set of vaccines against all kinds of cancers developed in secret and finished and released at the exact same time. That just doesn't make sense for a real set of vaccines, just for one that is invented for propaganda purposes.
The article says "for individual therapy", so Russia is likely working on the same personalized "vaccines" that other researchers have been working on for quite some time - ones that utilize the individual patient's immune system to attack the specific cancer. Not something that everyone would go out and get immunized against. This isn't mind-blowing, but if you were Putin wouldn't you want to put it some positive news right now too?
That's not the way science is done. The researchers need input before they submit for publication as well, and they need to publicise the trial to recruit participants.
Also to drum up funding. Lotta vaccine research labs do outreach to keep people informed/hyped up about their research which brings in donor money and grants.
That too, to develop anything actually usable with a confidence that it works you would need fairly large trials.
I think you misread the story. It says
"we have come very close to the creation of so-called cancer vaccines and immunomodulatory drugs of a new generation. I hope that soon they will be effectively used as methods of individual therapy"
I think you misread it as "we will create comprehensive, all-purpose oncovaccines", when in fact it just says "we will create oncovaccines", which is pretty likely given that it's 2024 now. To use your analogy, it's like saying they're close to creating some vaccines for some respiratory viruses, which is plausible.
I don't get why you say, "any and all... all kinds of cancers developed in secret and finished and released at the exact same time." There is nothing like that in the story – besides which, it just doesn’t make sense for a real set of vaccines.
I also don't understand why you said they'd be "developed in secret", as there's no reason to think that and it doesn't make sense.
Putin says a lot of crazy shit
I wonder if mRNA vaccine treatment for cancer is what they are referencing.
From what I was able to understand (and maybe somebody can correct anything I've gotten wrong), the "vaccine" is tailored on a per-individual basis to target key protein markers of a petients particular cancer. This allows the body to identify and start to attack the cancer where previously the immune system would not be able to tell the difference between healthy and cancerous cells.
Ref: https://www.cancer.gov/news-events/cancer-currents-blog/2022/mrna-vaccines-to-treat-cancer
does it involve falling out of a window
Suuuuure.
Created exclusively for and at the direction of someone who has cancer maybe?
"We're close, we promise, we don't want to fall out a window."
Great, I expect we'll see that any day now. /s
Cuba already has some vaccines for cancer, it's not impossible.
Yeah and HPV vaccinations are older than those still.
But, I guess "some scientists have developed a vaccine to lower the risk of one specific cause of one specific type of cancer." is less attention grabbing than "X country has developed a cancer vaccine"
Given that there are several cancer vaccines currently in human trials, this is not surprising. Most are based in mRNA technology, like the COVID-19 vaccine. Basically, researchers identify the marker proteins of a specific cancer, then create an mRNA vaccine that sensitizes the immune system. Then the immune system attacks cells with that marker. Other advances are methods to take down the "shield" that cancer cells have that hides them from the immune system.
If a country chooses to ignore patents, they can copy the methods and produce their own vaccines with significantly less investment.
Is a cancer vaccine even possible as a concept? Would it even be classified as a vaccine since cancer isn't a virus?
Obviously creating preventative measures for cancer would be amazing but I figured that wasn't even a subject we were broaching since treating it is hard enough
Is a cancer vaccine even possible as a concept?
Yes. A recently-found example of cancer resistance is wolves in Chernobyl.
Would it even be classified as a vaccine since cancer isn't a virus?
Yes, and some oncovaccines are already approved.
Yo that's dope af, thanks for the info
I'm especially ignorant on cancer medicine, but I do know that Cuba has developed a vaccine that is supposed to prevent a type of lung cancer. My guess would be a similar sort of result here
There are some types of cancer vaccine, but from what I know they're usually given to people who already have cancer. A college classmate of mine told me he had a bladder cancer vaccine
Would it even be classified as a vaccine since cancer isn’t a virus?
Increasingly everything injected gets called that in popular media, it seems.
The article says he didn't specify what kinds of cancer he's talking about, or any exact timeline. You might be able to prevent a cancer, but all cancers seems pretty impossible, short of hypothetical nanobots that turn you into a disease-immune superhuman.
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