this post was submitted on 02 Feb 2024
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[–] nekandro@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

"Electoral interference" is illegal, but "shaping and changing the PRC" is just business.

[–] blargerer@kbin.social 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

You are giving a very sinister lean to shaping and changing. I think its clear that they wanted China to be another Japan, not any number of failed coups in the middle east or Central/South America.

[–] Zehzin@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The only reason there wasn't a coup in Japan like a lot of other south/east asian countries is that after the aftermath of WW2 there was no need of one

[–] mlg@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Yeah because you outsourced the crap out of them and then acted surprised when they leveraged that economic power.

On the other hand, China is also probably the one country where they successfully kept the CIA out. Can't coup your way out of this one.

[–] Trudge@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

We also saw something that really stood out, which is that the PRC believed the United States was in terminal decline — that our industrial base had been hollowed out, that our commitment to our allies and partners had been undercut, that the United States was struggling to manage a once-in-a-century pandemic, and that many in Beijing were openly proclaiming that “the East was rising and the West was falling.”

Sullivan can't get away with this. He can't just say a banger line like this and continue on without addressing it.

[–] nicetriangle@kbin.social 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I feel like this isn't surprising information. Quite a lot of the rhetoric and behavior coming out of China has signaled as much pretty openly for a while now.

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[–] makeasnek@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

BRICS nations like China are desperately trying to move off the dollar, which is a major tool of US control. The problem is, nobody trust the Yuan, the Ruble, or any of their other fiat currencies. They can't trust each other, so the US remains the global currency hegemon. But that is a privileged position it basically only got because everybody else was blown up after the world wars. The US's position in this area will continue to erode.

There is a fantastic overview of how the US uses the dollar to control other countries and extract trillions of dollars from them while keeping them in a cycle of debt. The Human Rights Foundation https://youtu.be/7qRWurFaUD0?list=PLe0djdakvnFb0T-oZAeF49A-EZChise4n&t=14009 and another one on how France abuses its currency influence in Africa to keep the colonial legacy alive https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-u1Pjce4Lg&pp=ygUxaG93IGZyYW5jZSBjb250cm9scyBlbnRpcmUgZWNvbm9taWVzIGZyYW5jb2RvbGxhcg%3D%3D

What will replace it? My bet is on Bitcoin. A few smaller nations (Ecuador, Argentina, El Salvador) have embraced it as a way to reduce the control the US has over their economies. The blowback from the world bank, IMF etc has been very telling. They do not like the idea of a country that doesn’t want to get stuck in a cycle of debt, restructuring, and subservience to the dollar. Throughout history, countries have had to choose between minting their own currency which many lack the political stability to do, or using the currency of another country as the expense of their own sovereignty. But now there is Bitcoin.

Bitcoin is a politically neutral currency that cannot be controlled by any nation state or even group of nation-states. It is immune to corruption and human error. It just works well to send money from A to B and nobody can cheat it. It's market cap is 850 billion dollars, that puts it in the top 25 countries by GDP. On par with Switzerland. Higher than sweden. Higher than Israel. Higher than vietnam.

Bitcoin's fiscal policy is clear and predictable. 21 million coins will be minted. No more, no less. And if you have a private key, you can spend your coins. Nobody else can spend them. It has kept that promise for 15 years. 365 days a year. 7 days a week. 24 hours a day. Without a single hour of downtime, bank holiday, or a single hack. And there's no reason to think it can't keep that promise another 15. The incentives and security mechanisms built into Bitcoin the past 15 are the same it will have the next 15.

Anybody can use Bitcoin with a cell phone and a halfway reliable internet connection. With Bitcoin lightning, you can send an international transaction in under a second for pennies in fees. No credit check required, no middlemen, no nonsense. It doesn't matter if your country doesn't have stable banking infrastructure or a government constantly devaluing your currency. And it does all of this with less than 1% of global energy usage, mostly from renewables, since miners tend to chase the cheapest electricity which tends to be made from renewables at off-peak hours.

[–] PanArab@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

A nation of 330 million cannot control a nation that has 1 billion more people. Nations should also be free to choose their own destiny. A logical fallacy many in the West fall for is assuming the rest of the world wants to be like them and should be like them. If I have a 3000 or 4000 year-old civilization why should I take marching orders from a baby state that’s not even 300 years old like the US?

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[–] BaroqueInMind@kbin.social 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

In summary, he is saying China is not there yet, but they are going to get big enough to eat our lunch and we can't do shit about it, so we might as well start getting on their good side or we'll get fucked in the long term.

[–] morry040@kbin.social 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

No, you need to read the remarks again. Paragraphs like this one do not support your interpretation at all.
The US is saying that China's economic trajectory has been too optimistic in the past and that the US needs to focus on domestic improvements, force China to play by the rules, and then facilitate the US becoming the leader.

[–] BaroqueInMind@kbin.social 0 points 1 year ago

Ah thank you for confirming my stupidity. I am dumb and will read the thing again.

[–] Godric@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

China's time came and passed. Now it's going to decline as they reap the effects of their One Child Policy and authoritarian leadership.

[–] BaroqueInMind@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Close up shop, boys. Looks like Godric@lemmy.world knows better than the entire US Department of Defense.

You should definitely call Biden and let him know all the Ivy League college educated generals, expensive million-dollar think-tank groups, and hundreds of experienced advisors are all wrong in their assessment of China.

[–] Godric@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Being a condescending muppet online won't fix China's many problems.

[–] BaroqueInMind@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

Who said any of us here are trying to solve problems?

You sound like what we are talking about here is to resolve global issues like we are a bunch of dudes in a fucking cabal of globalists and as effective as Facebook "Thoughts and Prayers™️"

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