this post was submitted on 30 Sep 2026
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TranscriptA Helpful Guide To Star Wars vs Star Trek

Star Wars

[Image of Han Solo in Tommy’s style]

  • Don’t start with the β€˜first’ movie, let me tell you where to start
  • Looks like ruined farm equipment in space
  • In summary: the past was horrible
  • JJ Abrams ruined it

Star Trek

[Image of Jean Luc Picard in Tommy’s style]

  • Don’t start with the first season, let me tell you where to start
  • Looks like a cruise ship in space
  • In summary: the future is incredible
  • JJ Abrams ruined it
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[–] OnyxRex@lemmy.dbzer0.com 61 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (25 children)

I'll die on this hill. JJ Abrams didn't ruin Star Wars. He just didn't do anything new with Star Wars. Rian Johnson ruined Star Wars. He was unwilling to yes-and any of the mystery boxes and plot threads Abrams set up in The Force Awakens and essentially ruined the entire trilogy by burning any plot that could have happened in the third film.

If nothing else, the complete disrespect to Finn's implied arc was unforgivable. That boy was going to be a Jedi.

J. J. Abrams established that Star Wars was just a repeating formula rather than a developing story, which would be bad enough, but in order to make the formula repeat he also made it canon that everything that happened in the original trilogy was ultimately meaningless.

[–] coolie4@lemmy.world 31 points 4 days ago (2 children)

If nothing else, the complete disrespect to Finn's implied arc was unforgivable. That boy was going to be a Jedi.

I must've watched all the wrong trailers because I didn't even know Rey was going to be a character.

Based on what I saw, I thought "The Force Awakens" was going to be about a disillusioned Storm Trooper who "awakens" as the new Jedi to save the galaxy. Would have been an amazing story of redemption. Instead we got... Well.. You know.

[–] Sackett@thelemmy.club 11 points 4 days ago

I'd watch that movie.

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[–] bampop@lemmy.world 22 points 4 days ago (2 children)

The Force Awakens was crap but it tended to get the benefit of the doubt because there were all these mysterious threads that might be going somewhere interesting. But the problem is, JJ Abrams had no clue about where he was going with any of it. That's unforgivable. You need some idea of the story you want to tell. Or just hire a fucking writer ffs. Plenty of people know how to tell a story, JJ Abrams just isn't one of them. I don't want to let Rian Johnson off the hook but it was already on a bad trajectory before he crashed it into the ground.

[–] bitjunkie@lemmy.world 7 points 3 days ago

He's literally been quoted as saying he didn't realize that the MAIN LINE STAR WARS FILM was going to be PART OF A TRILOGY.

[–] JcbAzPx@lemmy.world 11 points 4 days ago

They needed a show runner. Someone there who at least knew the gist of the whole story and had the authority to override director egos.

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[–] aeronmelon@lemmy.world 76 points 4 days ago (9 children)
  • The very next guy to do it managed to be much worse than Abrams.
[–] brsrklf@jlai.lu 34 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Debatable. Anyway, the very next guy after the very next guy managed to be infinitely worse than both. What was his name again?

[–] Town@lemmy.zip 16 points 4 days ago (1 children)

The guys that also ruined game of thrones?

[–] FlexibleToast@lemmy.world 9 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Ironically Game of Thrones was ruined because the show runners got an offer to do a Star Wars movie. They turned down HBOs offer to do more episodes of GoT and instead hurried through and botched the ending because they wanted to get started on that Star Wars project. They botched GoT so bad that Disney got rid of their movie. Serves them right.

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[–] ech@lemmy.ca 20 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (26 children)

Nah. VIII had a few missteps, but it was better then the rehashed plot of the first, and far better then the mess that followed.

[–] Goodeye8@piefed.social 21 points 4 days ago (27 children)

What the actual fuck? Episode VIII is quite literally the worst mainline Star Wars movie made. I consider even episode IX to be better, not by a big margin but still better for no other reason than to try and salvage the clusterfuck that was episode VIII. Here's a short list of things episode VIII got wrong.

  • Threw out pretty much every story thread Episode VII set up
  • Did a complete character assassination of Luke
  • Turned Leia into a force user because, well I don't even know why.
  • The entire casino world plotline which is not just entirely irrelevant to the plot but also completely fucks with timeline of events.
  • That whole thing between the purple haired captain? and Poe. Especially that super secret plan that for no fucking reason was never explained to the rest of the crew.
  • Breaking the whole hyperspace explanation and the whole space combat consistency with the hyperspace kamikaze
  • The asian lady plot
  • The ending sets up literally nothing for episode IX

The whole movie is one massive misstep that derailed the entirely sequel trilogy. I get Episode VII wasn't anything magnificent but the entire point of episode VII was to reaffirm to the fans (who were skeptical about the continuation of Star Wars considering Episode III didn't really leave on a high note and Episode VI kinda tied up the loose ends) that the series is going somewhere and isn't nosediving off a cliff. That's why they effectively redid the Episode IV plotline, because it was a safe starting point that sets up characters for episodes VIII and IX. Abrams even left a rough draft for VIII and IX but then Johnson was given full creative control to throw the entire trilogy draft out the window and do whatever the fuck he wanted. We don't know if episode IX could've ever been good because episode VIII fucked the entire trilogy so hard it became impossible to salvage.

The only context in which Episode VIII could be better than IX is if you view them as individual movies and not a part of a trilogy. And you know, Episode VIII probably could've been an okay standalone film. But it wasn't. It had to respect what episode VII set up and it had to give episode IX something to follow up on. It didn't neither and for that both Episode VII and IX are worse off simply because episode VIII exists. In fact the movie almost killed the entire franchise by taking all the characters and storylines and driving them off straight off the cliff.

[–] OnyxRex@lemmy.dbzer0.com 18 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

100% this it was Rian Johnson's inability to work from someone else's starting point.

To add to your list. Finn. Johnson butchered Finn's story so much that the actor vocally said he would never take another Star Wars job.

He was supposed to be a Luke analog. He was supposed to be force sensitive. He was supposed to confront Phasma. The first movie projected so many hints at the path many of these characters were going to take in the trilogy. There was a parallel to Finn and Rey. Finn's force awakening literally breaks his mind control and we see Kylo sense him!

Johnson came in and burned all of those threads.

I accepted a lot about Episode VIII, but the ruin of the Finn stuff is where it actually became unforgivable for me.

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[–] jaycifer@lemmy.world 12 points 3 days ago (1 children)

You're right with all your bullet points. Episode VIII has a fundamentally broken plot in many ways. The thing that it has going for it though is that it has a few actual themes that I found interesting. I like that Johnson questioned the whole light side dark side polarity and that Rey came from nobody in particular. I liked the rejection of the Skywalker family and assertion that heroes could come from anywhere. If it had followed a better movie, "let the past die" would have been a legitimate highlight for me. It didn't work in the trilogy it's a part of, but if the trilogy had been based around the VIII we got I think it could have worked as a sequel trilogy to Star Wars.

And the thing is that I think those are about the only things I particularly like in the entire sequel trilogy besides Babu Frik (I hate how much I love that little dude), and that makes episode VIII the best of a trilogy of bland to bad movies for me. Episode VII was the best constructed of them, and it had cool stuff, but it didn't do anything that made me think "oh that's interesting" (like VIII did) because so much of it was nostalgia based 'memberberries. You're right about it being made to address fan concerns, but that was only relevant in 2015, and I'm looking back at in 2026. Episode IX was just a train wreck start to finish, and I don't particularly blame it because it had the unenviable task of following up VIII, but it's still just bad with nothing interesting to show for it.

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[–] kevinandmensi@piefed.world 31 points 3 days ago (2 children)

JJ Abrams
I think you mean Jar Jar Abrams

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[–] Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 18 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

JJ abrams is responsible for what nutrek is today, all flash and no substance that KURTZMAN happily copied.

pre-disney star wars decent, but not after disney bought the franchise, and turned it intoa slop machine, and its basically just drama in space at least for the current ones.

[–] cloudshouter@lemmy.zip 5 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Soooo many great franchises got turned into slop machines with no soul and the writing of a ninth grader.

[–] Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

true, SG1 almost become another slopbox, good thing the showrunners dint budge on what the exects wanted for the show, which was 'broader audience"

[–] cloudshouter@lemmy.zip 1 points 1 day ago

I was talking about SG1 the other day and how when they did write something that was not a good idea long term, they would ignore it in universe and then make fun of it in a later Wormhole Xtreme/time travel/parallel universe episode. Really a good way of doing retcon that takes the steam out any arguments.

[–] Pratai@piefed.ca 31 points 4 days ago (9 children)
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[–] JoMiran@lemmy.ml 40 points 4 days ago
[–] NotASharkInAManSuit@lemmy.world 18 points 4 days ago (9 children)

Absolutely start with the first season of Star Trek! What the fuck kind of nonsense is that? The original series is a gods damned masterpiece! Except for I, Mudd, just skip that one, it sucks.

[–] NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world 14 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I think that was about TNG? People often say start when Riker gets his beard and then go back later if you like it.

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[–] Kolanaki@pawb.social 19 points 4 days ago (2 children)

I actually kinda like that Abram's Star Trek takes place in an alternate universe. In that way, it hasn't ruined anything. None of his movies are in the Prime universe.

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[–] eurodyne@piefed.world 27 points 4 days ago (9 children)

The first season of TNG has some great episodes. It’s just that several episodes are very much worth skipping.

[–] remon@ani.social 15 points 4 days ago (7 children)

Well obviously you start with TOS ...

[–] A_Union_of_Kobolds@lemmy.world 28 points 4 days ago (4 children)

Dammit we do timeline order and you know what that means

It's been a long road...

[–] brsrklf@jlai.lu 14 points 4 days ago

If you're doing that, Discovery S2 to S3 will be the longest road ever.

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[–] GreenKnight23@lemmy.world 23 points 4 days ago (1 children)

JJ Abrams is a talentless hack that couldn't direct water out of a boot if the script was on the heel.

[–] schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works 23 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

He's great technically, but his problem is he has nothing to say--he's not an artist.

And that's exactly why studio execs love him so much.

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[–] rob_t_firefly@lemmy.world 15 points 4 days ago (2 children)

Ohh, this comment section is gonna be good. 🍿

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[–] Dadifer@lemmy.world 18 points 4 days ago (7 children)

Hot take: I loved the JJ Abrams Star Treks

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[–] ruuster13@lemmy.zip 15 points 4 days ago (2 children)

Remember the crossover star trek episode when the Farengi hunted R2D2-type droids?

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