It's not all good news, and unfortunately this bill expands the censorship regime to web browsers and websites too.
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So it has always been about collecting data about kids all along?
Yes.
I'm trying to understand the logic. I guess they think the kids are too dumb to use Linux.
So what if you're running Linux on Windows? Does that qualify?
Probably because you can just modify the OS to say you're old enough. With a closed source OS you can't.
In reality it just means you can't use the OS as age verification, and will have to use other means if you're into that. Personally I just slap on a VPN and go somewhere that hasn't succumbed to this idiocy...
I'd imagine most kids using Linux are either being actively taught computers by a parent who's paying close attention, or so smart that nobody is stopping them from doing anything.
The logic is none of these distros would do shit to comply with this, and enforcement is almost impossible. This is just saving face.
While I do like the idea of saving face, let me ask you this: when was the last time something as mundane as reality stopped a politician?
Ummm, more then you think. If it makes them look bad then yeah. In this case I don't think anyone (even the big players) where pumped about this law. If they could spin it as a win then yeah, reality be damned. But here I doubt they even got much of a rise from distros that don't sell their stuff anyways.
There were some people practically tripping over themselves to add all the prerequisites needed to support age verification. Instead of waiting to see how things played out, they just rushed through changes for things like systemd.
Adding a nullable "date of birth" field on a json doesn't seem like "rushed". The whole thing was massively overblown, considering it already had a field for the user real name (also optional).
I don't know what the Cali gov was thinking
But it makes sense to me, based on the commercial incentive. It's not that FreeBSD doesn't form the basis of products that will need to comply with the law (whatever Apple calls their desktop OS for instance), but FreeBSD itself is only for the leet.
No, you don't have to be a genius to use it, but you do need to be very weird, in that you want to use your own actual brain to solve problems, and you want to fully understand what the thing is doing, from bootup to shutdown. If that's you, you're a very odd person, according to many.
This is awesome to hear. But the fact that they had to do this after the fact tells you all you need to know about how stupid and poorly thought out to these laws are.
same fucking morons who passed the "mandatory wiretaps for 3d printers" bullshit
Good, one more reason to slowly push people out of Microsoft's clutches.
How does that make any sense? How is the license for a piece of software relevant to verifying age? If I make a site that is objectively harmful to minors, I can just make it open-source and I'm exempt? Or, if I make a completely innocuous site that doesn't actually do anything but is closed source, I would have to comply?
But really, nothing should be doing strong identity verification outside of stuff like government (e.g. passports), or anything that commonly exploits identity for crime (e.g. major financial operations).
I think it's actually a common sense exemption comparable to things like the FMLA having a carve out for small persons with a small number of people. FOSS operating systems bring a lot of value to businesses, higher education and presumably California's government, but the many devs who make contributions that create this value on a volunteer basis could feasibly determine that they will either simply refuse to comply with it and pull these OSes from California, or that even if they did want to comply, they have an argument that compliance is simply an insurmountable burden for them to develop and maintain, in addition to maintaining the other features that actually provide the majority of the value.
On top of these, as others have pointed out, it's a trivial for a sufficiently capable user to modify an open source program to circumvent this. Furthermore, there are a ton of FOSS OSes where development is not based in California, and it would be a ridiculous waste of time and money trying to enforce the law on them. I kind of doubt Canada is going to extradite the OpenBSD devs (or at least the folks your donations to the project go to) to face trial in the US on this, for example.
In a way, it's an unusually aware law that lets legislators avoid the egg on their face of passing a toothless law when it comes to FOSS OSes, while still letting them please the "Think of the children!" crowd and squeeze more data and money (in fines) from Microsoft, Google and Apple, who will be subject to the law.
The overall goal of the law is still terrible, but the way they went about making this exception shows a rare understanding of technology for legislators, even if it was due to public backlash and relevant technical input, rather than the legislators suddenly understanding the tech they want to control themselves.
So why not target that? RHEL and Ubuntu are big corporate distros. Plenty of other big corporate software is open source too.
Because, as I already mentioned, the companies behind those distros are based in North Carolina and the UK, respectively, not California. It makes no sense for them to comply with a silly law in California, when they could just as easily rent servers outside of CA to their clients based there for whatever business needs they have, tell their clients to figure out compliance for the clients on their own, and ignore the law. Otherwise, they would have to take on the perpetual responsibility of maintaining compliance not only for their own contributions that they pack in their respective distros, but also for any upstream contributions that would be subject to these laws by upstream contributors they have no control or influence over. If some dev from Poland comes up with a great new idea for the kernel and it gets widely adopted, but doesn't comply with this law (because why would a Polish dev waste their free time adding this?), now Red Hat or Canonical would have to either forgo those new features that their clients will be hearing about, or waste time and money reviewing all these commits to make sure they don't miss any contributions that would touch on something covered by this law and updating and supporting their updates to ensure compliance.
Even if they did want to comply with the law to be able to sell their OSes in California, it would open up a huge can of legal liabilities for them that is nearly entirely dependent upon the actions and work of individuals they don't control, and they have plenty of trivial ways of circumventing California's jurisdiction if they decided doing so was the better course of action.
First off, we're talking about operating systems and not websites.
Second, if it's open source, the users can just edit out the age verification, no matter how it's implemented. And if it's open source, you simply can't prevent that behavior.
In theory, the closed source systems make that more complicated, to the point where we can "rely" on those safeguards.
There's a logic here, even if I totally disagree with the premise of the OS needing anything to do with the user's age. Parents need to parent and we've had solid enough parental controls for a long time now that make this type of monitoring and control easy.
But really, nothing should be doing strong identity verification outside of stuff like government (e.g. passports), or anything that commonly exploits identity for crime (e.g. major financial operations).
FYI the article title (and the name of the law) are both misleading. The law does not require age verification, only age attestation.
Does that make the law even dumber? Probably, lol.
This is still bad, rollback the law
But if lawmakers didnt constantly push out completely ineffective laws that cause problems, then what else would they do with their time? Effectively govern? Fucking nonsense.
I'd like medicare for all, a 50% reduction in military spending, and for the wealthy to pay taxes and be held accountable. Please and thank you.
Mamdani is ruining the grading curve.
This is fucking BAD you guys. Like, we’re being dog walked into a fucking wall here.
Major Big Tech companies (and their Fortune 500 partners, and the smaller businesses they support) are ALL going to be asking for age verification for all their SaaS “cloud” offerings and be required to do so by law.
If Linux is exempt from these laws then these services which we may all still be dependent on in some form or another will not work with Linux, since it doesn’t verify age.
You won’t be able to bank or watch Netflix on Linux anymore and it will destroy adoption just as it’s going mainstream.
I think you are confusing something. A tech company running proprietary code can and will ask for age verification. It does not matter if the user runs Windows, Linux, iOS, GrapheneOS.
The law here makes sure that services, which are basically also open source, are not required to do the age verification check.
So, you install Windows? Age check. You install Linux? No age check. Before even opening a browser. Then on Linux you open Netflix? Age check.
So I fundamentally saw this actually as a good news.
The law requires the OS to ask the age and provide it to applications, not verify the age. Linux can provide the same API with a static value or "no age" signal if needed.
This makes literally zero sense.
Why would the software license determine this? Just rollback the shit law.
Cause they don't want to have to force corpos to get age verification on the ludicrous number of IoT devices that run Linux, but cover their ass in making it not seem that way.
Oh sorry. I mean... cause they're, like, open-source and how could you even enforce that?
Corporate stuff and things like IoT devices were already exempt from the law, they didn't need any changes.
We need to divest from big tech. We can't have our lives leveraged by companies for more concessions from us. What is even left to concede?
Sexual slavery, chattel slavery, blood sports.
None of these is that far off.
Big tech read cyberpunk dystopias and thought they were instruction manuals.
It can definitely get worse.
