this post was submitted on 23 Aug 2026
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[–] cosmicrose@lemmy.blahaj.zone 20 points 2 days ago (1 children)

The less you eat, drink and buy books; the less you go to the theatre, the dance hall, the public house; the less you think, love, theorise, sing, paint, fence, etc., the more you save – the greater becomes your treasure which neither moths nor rust will devour – your capital. The less you are, the less you express your own life, the more you have i.e., the greater is your alienated life, the greater is the store of your estranged being.

— Karl Marx, Human Requirements and Division of Labour Under the Rule of Private Property

[–] Unpigged@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

How is thinking, theorizing, loving, singing, painting, etc wastes my capital?

[–] Simon_Shitewood@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 day ago (1 children)

It's time spent not working.

[–] Unpigged@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Not a waste of capital though?

[–] Simon_Shitewood@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Labour is a form of capital.

[–] Unpigged@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

So let's take a philosopher who works by thinking and feeling. And this by thinking, feeling and doing other things he's increasing his labor potential. What am I missing?

[–] Simon_Shitewood@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

...the actual labour? Philosophers aren't paid to just sit around thinking, it's only once they put the labour into publishing their thoughts that they get paid (possibly).

[–] Unpigged@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Right but the moment of publishing is the last stepin the long, tedious thinking and analysis process. Without it there will be nothing to publish.

Anyways, absolutist statements hold no water, other news at 11.

[–] Simon_Shitewood@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I mean you're just arguing that thinking is labour for a philosopher. The statement remains correct. The philosopher is encouraged to think about publishable things instead of just for the freedom of thinking.

[–] Unpigged@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

Stretching the other way, painter who's not painting is wasting capital?

[–] Simon_Shitewood@lemmy.ml 1 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

Yeah, if they're not doing some other form of labour. I really feel like you might need to spend more time thinking on the meaning of the quote if you're wasting time trying to find gotchas where things that can potentially be done just for pleasure are being turned into labour.

[–] Unpigged@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

I went as far as reading it in original to make sure the meaning wasn't lost in translation but my questions remain unanswered.

The quote I think operates on assumption that there's a direct correlation between time spent labouring and financial outcome. In capitalist world we have here, this correlation does not exist universally. it's still possible to engage creatively, express yourself and be paid for it. Not for everyone, but still possible.

[–] Simon_Shitewood@lemmy.ml 1 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

No, you definitely added that assumption yourself, it just talks about saving capital. You are assuming there is equal money to made in self expression as there is commercial execution.

[–] Unpigged@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 7 hours ago

Well yes, I'm trying to find some interpretation where the quote actually makes sense.

No I'm arguing that the world is too large to make such assumptions universally, as demonstrated by objective reality.

[–] ComicalMayhem@lemmy.world 73 points 3 days ago (3 children)

Welcome to America. Please ignore the collapse and enjoy these breads and circuses.

[–] Ookami38@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 day ago

They're actively eroding the bread supply and making the circuses harder and harder to access. We know where that leads.

[–] queerlilhayseed@piefed.blahaj.zone 50 points 3 days ago (4 children)

I'm not arguing that America isn't in dire straits at the moment, but the concept of having to work so hard to live you don't don't ever get to enjoy life is ancient and global. It's a sad state of affairs.

[–] Darnton@piefed.zip 39 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Yes, but the fact that it is happening in a country which contains the most wealth any nation has ever had in recorded history is quite special.

[–] queerlilhayseed@piefed.blahaj.zone 28 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I don't think it is, really. Every weathiest nation in history got their wealth by taking it from others, from within and without. America is the latest symptomatic patient of a disease that's been around a long time.

[–] Darnton@piefed.zip 12 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

Only if you completely ignore all context and recent history, and the fact that many nations does not have all of the issues which the US has, but has actually figured out some solutions to some of the problems.

Meanwhile the US seems more adamant than ever to make life insufferable for most of its citizens. The point being that the US is indeed very special in its failure to learn from others, despite having more wealth than anybody else.

The "it has always been like this everywhere in the entirety of human history" is a pretty useless and false statement in this context.

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[–] yakko@feddit.uk 23 points 3 days ago (2 children)

We used to talk about the future in terms of how much better things could get. Now we talk about it in terms of reversion to the mean.

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[–] EggInDisguise@lemmy.blahaj.zone 15 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I can't afford bread and the only circus is the 3-ring variety taking place in DC.

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[–] panda_abyss@lemmy.ca 38 points 3 days ago (5 children)

It’s a gap year that common anywhere?

I took time off before university but I worked the whole time, mostly nights for the extra pay, and saved up a lot while deciding what I wanted to do. Is that what this means?

[–] bitofarambler@crazypeople.online 29 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

a gap year, especially common in much of western europe, is a year in between the end of childhood education(say US high school) and the beginning of adult education(say US university) where a young adult is encouraged to find themselves before choosing their exact field of interest or life path.

It is common in many countries.

[–] BackgrndNoize@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

Not a thing in most of Asia that I know of, but it should be, I could have used a break from the rat race for a bit when I was younger and maybe put some real thought on what I want to do with my life

[–] MrScottyTay@sh.itjust.works 18 points 3 days ago

That is a type of gap year yeah. The stereotypical one is obviously that of which someone goes on holiday for most of a year without any responsibilities but it's harder to do that when you don't have the money to support it.

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[–] mycodesucks@lemmy.world 30 points 3 days ago (2 children)

I get the point and I'm not criticizing it...

But are "gap year", "vacation", and "backpacking" not all the exact same category of thing?

[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 9 points 3 days ago (1 children)

More or less, but "vacation" also implies an additional expense beyond just missing work.

[–] TheOctonaut@piefed.zip 10 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Gap year and backpacking, for most speakers of English, also refer to kinds of travel. Other countries have to have multiple words for "missing work" (jesus christ)

[–] Test_Tickles@lemmy.world 7 points 2 days ago

When a poor (most people) tells me they took a gap year, I usually assume that means that they got a job to pay for college. When a middle class person (entry level wealthy) tells me that they took a gap year I assume that means that they did fuck all until their parents forced them to get the fuck out of the house.
It's only when talking to actual wealthy people that I assume the gap year included backpacking or vacation.
Also when somebody says they spent their gap year backpacking, I don't assume that has anything to do with hiking or camping, but is more about spending a year not bathing and doing drugs with sketchy people in sketchy places.

[–] Funkt4st1c@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago

Gap year could mean just doing jack shit at home and partying. Vacationing is partying at a destination. Backpacking is vacationing in the wilderness.

[–] im_fine_sandy@nord.pub 16 points 3 days ago (3 children)

In Australia your gap year is taken after high school, before university. Most people get jobs.

[–] Dozzi92@lemmy.world 14 points 2 days ago (2 children)

In the US some people take a gap four years and go to war. It's the American Vacation.

[–] DaveyRocket@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago

The locals put on a firework show every night and all day! They really go all out - but they never invite us to come back…

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[–] Simon_Shitewood@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 day ago

In the UK it's similar, but they get "jobs" to top up the money mummy and daddy are sending. Most people can only afford to go straight into either university or the workforce.

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[–] LemmyPlaceDN@europe.pub 11 points 3 days ago

Now A.I. can do it for them, so it's totally fine

/s

[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 7 points 3 days ago

Welcome to the third world (somewhat). Source: Am from the third world.

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