It’s not screens that are the problem, per se, but how they are used, and how schools and teachers were rely upon them to do every single little thing rather than using an appropriate methodology which integrates traditional teaching techniques which use technology to assist.
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And they wouldn't have to have the screen do everything if they were paid the appropriate amount given the importance of their station
It’s not even the pay. Every child deserves the education to be tailored to them but there aren’t enough people to sit down one on one with every kid. No budget meant no kid ever got one on one unless they had a disability and the school got money for another person. It always came down to not enough bodies. The pay was just insult to injury.
One on one isn't even necessary, look at the Montessori curriculum, two competent Montessori guides can manage a classroom of 30 kids with each kid working at their own pace (within guardrails, of course). The structure of public education in the US is a problem in addition to chronic underfunding
Montessori style education works very well for certain learning types, but often under-supports others and can suffer from poor implementation just like any other educational model. One-on-one is far superior for some students, and that will never not be the case.
Screen use should be relegated to a smart board/overhead projector and computer lab. Make kids use real books/pencil & paper and every test score will improve as long as a zero smartphone policy is enforced.
No. Shit.
Giving every student a distraction to take with them everywhere typically is a bad idea.
If it so much as has a button to change text size I know kids would rather mash that button and watch the screen go crazy than to pay attention to the lesson.
This is a problem for adults too, which is why they make dedicated distraction free writing devices and software. It’s not the screens, it’s how they are being used.
I'm sure there are right and wrong ways to apply digital learning but I also think adoption has been driven by tech companies and anyone that is starstruck by the "potential" of these devices. I can almost guarantee there were no long-term studies performed prior to sticking all kinds of screens in front of kids faces. Humans have been learning and teaching for millennia using physical mediums. It's very foolish to think we, as a species, can suddenly shift to a new medium in a single generation with no ill effects.
Call me old school, or just old, but my goto dedicated distraction free writing devices are a stack of paper (I prefer it bound in some kind of notebook) and a pen.
And I have spent the majority of my life in front of a screen, for both work and pleasure. /shrug
I knew the school laptops were fucked up when my kids started choosing to spend their limited screentime on them instead of iPads or the Switch or the TV.
This has been a major problem for my kid. They don’t even lock down the iPads they issue so they just do whatever. So when my kid is failing classes because he’s not doing assignments in class and it turns out he’s just on YouTube all day, it’s like why the fuck are they even able to get on that in the first place? Doesn’t matter how tightly I restrict technology at home when his school just says fuck it.
That's insane! How could any teachers think that's acceptable?
Probably not down to the teachers but to administration. When I was a kid we had computers (PC's or Macs) in some classrooms, but the caveat is that they specifically blocked most websites so if it wasn't on an approved list you couldn't use it. At some point it seems like they gave up trying to stay ahead of kids circumventing the blocks and teachers aren't spending time outside of class playing IT. They already dedicate a lot of unpaid time to grading papers and other extracurricular activities.
I can at least agree that teachers should confiscate or prevent students from using them if they provide more of a distraction than a help.
I'd guess a mix of don't care and don't know
Well the teachers can’t lock it down. Most they give the teachers is a way to peak on the kids screens via some app, but the kids have figured out all you gotta do is turn off Bluetooth to get around it.
The school on the other hand, I’ve bitched to them and their IT about it. Like Apple HAS good lockdown policies, and it’s not like they can’t just install Jampf or something of the like to really control it.
The issue here is that the technology itself, instruction, and implementation was incredibly poor this century. Schools weren't doing basic things like typing classes for primary school, there was no instruction on how to program or use the operating systems, and kids weren't given PCs; they were given tablets and chrome books which favored internet access based learning platforms over products stored locally on machines.
I grew up during the 1980s, and my primary schools had 1 apple pc in the classroom. We took turns learning typing. We learned how to operate the machines by inserting floppies and typing commands. Things we were given access to were all instructional. I have vivid memories of learning math via computer with a program called number muncher.
Access to the tech was limited and supervised. This is what created an environment that taught me how to use computers as I transitioned to secondary education. This century, all of the implemented controls were related to limiting access to pornography rather than teaching students anything about the actual tech. Now we have a generation of people entering the workforce that don't know how to use PCs just like the boomer demographic.
When I first started working on computers in 1994, I thought that by 2010 every kid/teen/adult would be able to repair their computers themselves. How wrong I was. They know how to use computers and tablets but the hardware is a mystery to them.
I worked at a STEM university and was helping a Computer Science student with his laptop. It had a SSD and a platter HD in it for storage. The platter HD was failing and needed replacing. I wrote to the student stating he “needed a new HD”. He had no clue what I meant. He didn’t even know it was possible to replace. He was going to buy a new laptop.
Capital is trying to corral all the tech into “the cloud” so they can control it all and rent it out forever.
They do not want anyone to know anything about hardware.
This most recent hubris with AI is because they think it can be used to create new tech and instruct installers so they no longer need ANY human capacity with knowledge.
Of course that was not and never will be true but isn’t it interesting how the billionaire class will pounce on any opportunity to cement their power without reliance on society hmmm it’s almost like they’re the fucking bad guys
Can confirm. I've spent several hours the last few weeks teaching a friend's 24 year old daughter basic computer literacy on a W11 system. None of her friend group could help because they know just as little. When we started, she didn't know how to shut down or reset the system.
I worked in a school system after 2011 in a county going technology first hard. They had thinkpads initially but the cost was so high for them that chromebooks became much more tantalizing as a budgetary measure. I do agree with you though whole hearted, because of a lack of instruction on computer usage and understanding kids were taught to just click this icon, do the work, be done with out. There was little to no attempt to explain the technology behind what they were doing. As a tech I would try to for the ones that'd listen but for them to really grasp it would require an actual class to do so.
As well kids are being given screens far too young for their developing minds and those screens allow access to short attention span favoring content and slop. If you Googled something you might remember more likely when I was a teen, you didn't have instant access to it. Now y do and I think it's detrimental what can be accessed.
I was born in 1996, but the older generation (it's Russia) that remembers Soviet schools sometimes remembers Soviet educational PCs. Those were a few series, I don't remember names, the point is there were Apple II clones and there were PDP-11 clones (but in PC form factor, even with networking ability in the sense of there being one master machine and slave machines booting from it ; but those were not terminals).
So, that older generation remembers as if something normal being taught to program in BASIC, FORTRAN, later C or Pascal and operate machines. Soviet life was quite a lot poorer than even 90s despite all the retroactive disdain for that decade, still informatics classes were apparently at least educationally useful and had at least one operable machine usually.
The 90s generations at least got some computer instruction of general use.
And my generation got Windows machines and no real understanding by anyone what informatics classes are even for. Unless it's some special school or at least with math focus.
Things people were taught in the 80s and which somehow don't transition at all to their operation of modern PCs, that contrast still terrifies me.
So - it's the same everywhere, it seems, because of the idea prevalent in the 00s that my generation is going to just wing it because of being exposed to electronics since childhood. An absolutely nutcase and absolutely winning (in the sense of popularity) idea.
I even have a pre-school brochure somewhere, if I'm not mistaken, with algorithmic problems and solutions. The earlier the better.
One can think in paranoid/cynical ways - "fools are easier to rule" or "so that's why they were pushing hacker movies in the 90s to scare everyone". I honestly think it was just fear of some day being less than capable of understanding the technology we rely upon to keep breathing. And that fear is unsubstantiated, because similarly to that most people don't understand city planning, logistics, oil refineries, electrical engineering and one can go on. But due to that fear of singularity it was easier to start imagining that somehow new generations will gain hard knowledge naturally.
But even that wouldn't be much of a problem if not for Microsoft. Hate them with passion. EDIT: For managing to sell, coerce and impose their monopoly upon the world and upon education most of all
I'm in tech and a connoisseur of modern stuff, but even I wouldn't want my non existing kids to be screen only. Have an IT class to get them to know how to use those devices, then back to books and paper. A friend struggles like hell keeping her son from spending his whole day on digital devices, if the school pulled that off, he'd be toast.
“TEchMoLoGy iS tHe fUTuRe anD wE mUSt PrEpArE tHE stUdEnTs!”
Yeah, no. You can stick to teaching them core curriculum. Speaking on behalf of GenX, we never needed school to tell us how to use technology.
I think I got reasonable tech training in high school in the early 2000s. I was taught how to use Word and Excel, and made to type up some of my assignments. Years later I'd watch my Gen X boss doing the company books by doing the math on a calculator and then typing the results into an Excel spreadsheet.
That said, I didn't learn to type in keyboarding class, I learned to type hitting on girls on MSN messenger.
I preferred pen and paper for note taking, didn't take notes on laptop for CS uni even. But having instruction material in digital form wins imo. Bulky exercise books are not worth it imo. I suspect publishers prefer those for beefy books for other reasons....but I would not be surprised if for lower elementary school exercise books with lots of images and fun exercises have positive impact.
Let's also remember that before the screens, we had shitty textbooks, and underpaid teachers and a serious shortage of supplies.
Schools in the United States need more than a review of tech, but a complete overhaul and a budget that doesn't look like Republicans are literally trying to kill the education system.
But after these funds dried up, schools have struggled to replace broken or outdated devices, which last on average less than a decade despite Google’s efforts to extend device life spans.
HA
Even disregarding the google planned obsolescence stuff, they expect to get 10 years out of a computer that is used daily for 3/4 of the year AND being given to teens/kids who are on the go from class to class and then home. It's not a reasonable expectation. Even treating a laptop perfectly, its just too much of a dangerous environment for a piece of tech to reasonably expect it's going to make it to the 10th year.
Right?
"What's that Google? When you design things from the ground up with planned obsolescence in mind, it's suddenly hard to UNDO the mess you made of the hardware? Who would have thunk it."
We can blame Google, Microsoft, and Apple for this mess.
I agree, the obsurd idea that "screens in class would help students" was just devices being pushed on customers.
And it's not without consequence obviously.
Wow! Who could've thought of that?! /s
Toss the chromebooks and let kids mess with the inner workings of the computer. Tech them to make their own backups and have restore drives available.
But the tech companies told me that everyone should learn to code in grade school!
Honestly that wouldn't be a bad idea. Even if few people ever code themselves, learning a little logic is good for anyone.
The problem is the tech companies didn't actually deliver on the promise. We didn't hand kids devices that encouraged tinkering and discovery. We handed them locked-down iPads suitable only for content consumption, not knowledge creation.
And if they did, all the tech in schools probably wouldn't be as big a problem. Who tf learns coding from scratch on a tablet?
Wonder when they'll admit that AI existing at all makes students much, much worse off?
Most teachers I've seen already do and are terrified of what they're seeing it do to their students
How is it that it took until 2026, nearly 100 years after the advent of the nuclear bomb, for school administrators to realize that not all technology is inherently good in every application?
It's not the tech, it's capitalism, and the fact the people making decisions are usually oblivious to the dangers of capitalistic tech.
Only way I have ever learned, in school, is by writing notes by hand into my own notebooks. Rewriting text book chapters, taking notes from teacher, writing answers down. It takes time, longer than taking notes on a laptop. But writing on laptop just doesn't "stick" the information into my head. Back in high school, I was the last student to still hand-in my essays etc in paper and my teachers were very happy to grade them, one told me it brought her good memories from the times there were less screens and teaching was easier. No wonder..
When I had laptop in glass, it was very easy to play games, watch Netflix or scroll Reddit. I had no self-control, I was not able to force myself to focus in learning. They started using laptops and tablets in glasses when we were 13 and most of us found ways to play games etc on them, bypassed the restrictions. And we shared the knowledge on that. Oh, also I dropped out eventually.
When I was in middle school. I thought that it was really cool that the kids in 'murica could take laptops and tablet into the school to use in class for learning. Then I stopped being a middle schooler.
This is likely a hot take but, I don't think this was the fault of the in-class laptops. They thought removing phones were going to solve the issue, it didn't, they thought computers were going to solve the issue, they didn't.
The core issue is: School is fucking boring. As a kid/teen you spend 8-10 hours a day sitting at a desk listening to a teacher yap about shit that at the time you don't believe is even important so you can regurgitate said useless information in tests that you then proceed to forget 2 weeks after taking. Hell even now I think I learned more actual life and useful skills in college. I have more engagement and entertainment working a full time job, than I did in a classroom, and at least I was making money with the job.
The school districts are shocked that upon providing a tool that could be used to lessen the tedium and lifelessness that school shoves down kids throats they then misused said tool. I don't understand it.
Make learning fun and engaging, add actual life skills to classrooms like how to read an analog clock, or how to write a check. Talk about how to survive in the real world, how interest works, how your credit score is really important, maybe how the government works cause I know I never had a civics class. Stuff that kids in high school would actually care about, instead of how to solve 3 unknowns in an equation, or how to find an angle of a triangle when you know the 2 angles, or learning about colonization for the 8th time. Make it so it isn't just "read this board, repeat on the test".
If you solve the underlying issues at play, instead of trying to remove the tools that kids are misusing in order to fix the issue that the school system as a whole created, I think it would be found that computers would be a net positive. I know having a computer in class significantly improved my scores and learning capability, as I could use it for legible note taking, and I could record sessions if I needed to. Yes I definitely accessed coolmathgames at times but, I can tell you right now, the ability to do that helped remove the monotony of the classroom, and if I didn't have that tool at my disposal, I would have simply zoned out and gained nothing out of the day, instead of what I did. My scores definitely wouldn't have gone up like the article seems to be alluding to.
I don’t entirely disagree, but it’s worth noting that to some extent learning is inherently boring, like, making it more interesting makes it less effective. Reiterating the same thing to the point of boredom and beyond had been shown to be effective if I remember correctly. It’s why things like Duolingo take so much longer to teach you a language, because they’re trying so hard to be somewhat fun they actually compromise the effectiveness of the teaching.
So I do think schools need to remove distractions, especially ones engineered to be distracting like Facebook.
But your point is valid too, just because some boredom is necessary doesn’t mean they can’t do better, a lot better.
Bingo.
Everyone wants a cheatcode at life. But there is no cheatcode for learning things. You have to do the hard work, which is hours and hours of boring repetitive stuff. That's how your brain works and improves and retains information, from repetitive exposure. That's why living in a foreign country massively accelerates your language skill, because you're constantly exposed to the language intead of working in an isolated way for like 30m each day.
It's hilarious that people agree with the 10,000 hour rule for learning guitar or something, but magically think that rule shouldn't apply to school work. You know what it also applies to, physical fitness. Nobody can cheat at getting faster or stronger without doing hours and hours of hard training, and nobody thinks it's problem for kids to spend 20 hours a week at football practice... but god forbid we think students should need to study 20 hours a week...
Like we know what works. Americans, teachers and students both, are just pathologically lazy and want to shortcut and cheatcode everything. Meanwhile the students who are learning and successful put in the time and the effort. And of course everyone else resents those kids and mocks them as losers.
Even my own nephew spent a good chuck of his graduation mocking and deriding the top performing kids as losers with no lives, meanwhile he's a B+ student who spends 30 hours week paying video games and whining how he isn't a better student and life isn't fair... and if you try to point out to him that being a A student would require less video games and more studying, he gets angry and tells you he wants to have 'have fun'. OK buddy, you made your choice then, and you got your results. He is under the delusion he's B+ average should have gotten him into MIT or something because he is 'cooler' than the kids who studied way harder.
Typical American entitled attitude. I'm sure he will make a great CEO someday.