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cross-posted from: https://discuss.online/post/41813187
especially if the evangelicals think gods, and angels are "men" and not genderless divine beings.
It might be an unpopular opinion, but a lot of queer folk are as clueless about Christianity (and religion more broadly) as religious people are about transgenderism (and LGBT more broadly).
Christianity, and other religions, are considerably more complex than people who read nothing about them think. Just like trans people make a lot more sense when you read about it at least a little bit. Both sides are guilty of being incredibly ignorant and uninformed.
That said, however, only one of those sides is actively pursuing removal of the other one from existence. So there's that.
Also, remember that the Church has little to do with the religion itself. Hell, the Church is literally the people who crucified Jesus. It doesn't get more ironic than that. The Church fulfills the same function for religion as the government does for society. You can fill in the rest yourself.
"Actually the books say this and not that" has zero relevance to what people actually do to others, so queer people are absolutely in the right to be wary of religious people, because religious people are those most likely to harass them, even if it means they didn't read their own book. That's not ignorance on the part of queer people, that's doubly on the part of religious people who are also ignorant about what queer people might do to them.
I can agree with that, but I feel like it's a different issue than the one I brought up.
It absolutely makes sense for queer people to be wary of religious people. Regardless of specific circumstances - chances are they're not going to be besties. This part is fairly clear.
I was just referring to the debates, who is right, arguments used, and so on. This may not matter to many people, and it's alright. I just like to look at motivations and reasons.
Also, no offence, but the quote "Actually the books say this and not that" is, actually, a near perfect example of the ignorance I mentioned. Unless satirical, which it may very well be. I can't always tell.
Also, no offence, but the quote "Actually the books say this and not that" is, actually, a near perfect example of the ignorance I mentioned.
That's my point. The people who are ignorant of what those books say are the religious people, not the queer people who are targeted. You can easily find atheists who know a lot more about the Bible than religious people, often because religious people will force atheists to debate what the books say, when they themselves don't know what their book says, and atheists end up having to do all the research to prove them wrong. It's the old joke "how do you become an atheist? By reading the Bible."
Not to mention that in the first place, queer people and atheists not knowing what the Bible says is completely fine, they're not at fault of anything, it's not their job to know and educate religious people. It doesn't matter to them what it says - only that religious people persecute them by claiming their book tells them to.
religions like Christianity isnt that deep lol, you either believe in it and hold onto it or, you dont believe in it but use religion as a cudgel.
^(Persecution)^
Theres a catholic weirdo in the comments of the crosspost that so perfectly exemplifies this meme. Yelling about us living in sin but my gosh the outrage when you imply the church is the largest pedophilia coverup in history...
edit:
ahem
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN (and all the rest of you delightful folks, folx and fucks), Here for an infinitely entertaining GRAND ENCORE PERFORMANCE, straight off their debut in c/athiesm, A REAL, LIVE, UNIRONIC TRADCATH!
Watch in amazement as they leap from the lemmy diving board, immediately plunging in way over their own head as they argue everything from morality to particle physics in a sad attempt to rationalize their own faith!
Lets give them all a BIG round of applause folks, as we wait in eager anticipation of what might they think up next!
Yelling about us living in sin but my gosh the outrage when you imply the church is the largest pedophilia coverup in history...
To be fair, it was the largest until capitalism and the epstein class came. The Church has been taking some Ls since then.
Common relationship advice: "Any relationship where the partner is puttin u under constant tests is toxic"
"k, so "god" is toxic because in the Bible it constantly does it"
"No thats different"
SMFH
I'm an atheist but I'm sorry I don't like this false equivalency. Comparing a "relationship" of two grown adults to how Christians see their relationship with God is just wrong.
It's literally all over the Bible and their teachings. The relationship is that of a child to a parent. A parent often has to do things that seem "unfair" or "hypocritical" to a child. But the child is not capable of understanding the danger or entire context of the situation. This is how Christians view their relationship with God. They take on the role of an obedient child that trusts their parent to guide them for their own best interests.
It's bull shit and borderline crazy. But it's not at all analogous to a consenting relationship between two adults. Its more like them pointing to their sky dad that watches Fox News all the time. You're not gonna catch them in hypocrisy. There is no hypocrisy when they are just doing whatever they choose to believe their sky dad wants them to.
The relationship is that of a child to a parent.
If a parent constantly tests and judges you, that's still toxic. Especially when they already know the outcome. Doubly especially when failing the test means not just a spanking but literal eternal torture.
I don't disagree. But, it's not like trying to help someone leave a toxic relationship. It's more like needing to take a child away from an abusive parent. But that abusive parent is inside their head.
It literally is! You're not God's "partner", you're His creation; you're not equals as you're entirely dependent on Him. A little toon or sim that cannot survive without the framework God made around them can only serve his master and be grateful for the opportunity of existence.
Which is totally not toxic at all
I don't think this (very fuzzy, seriously, pick a better word, world) word applies. You're not God's equal, it's not an equal relationship. God needs nothing from us, we need everything from God.
If he needs nothing from us, why does he DEMAND so much?
Cuz his daddy didn’t tell him he was proud of him, so now he needs us to glaze his shitty ass. Or else.
(Or he doesn’t exist. Naturalism is a better explanation for kids being born with horrific brain cancer.)
Persecution
You don't need to be religious to be mentally ill, you can be both or neither. Same with being gay, same with being trans. Idk if being trans by itself constitutes "mental illness" but I'm not about to jump into that rabbit hole.
But I do know you can't be considered sensible/serious about your religious ideology if you believe an actual "man in the sky" will both judge you for your actions and reward/punish you and also not do so. Men aren't immortal beings with no needs who can easily survive in the clouds/space/whatever, and you're either getting judged and paid accordingly or not, it's not both. Also, the only religious group I ever see actually be prosecuted/harassed is Muslims, lol, how did they appropriate that also?!
Excuse me? The only group being harassed/persecuted is MUSLIMS? Have you ever heard of this group of people called the "Jews"?
Hell even the Christians in Africa are currently being slaughtered in their tens of thousands.
The "religious group" mostly composed of European atheists (by their own admission) with their murderous own white supremacist colony fully supported by the biggest empire in the world, both engaged in the systematic eradication of Muslims (either as a main goal or as "acceptable losses")? Yeah, somehow I doubt they're as persecuted, lol, although I understand the pain of WW2 and Ashkenazi genocide.
Ah, so it is a competition? We are only counting the MOST persecuted religious group? Also putting religious group in quotation marks when talking about Jews isn't a dog whistle of any kind is it?
Not in this situation, this is why people say "Jew is both a religion and an ethnicity!!!" when talking about European "Jews": because many/most of them are and self-identify as atheist, they just mean they have European ancestry that at some point actually believed and don't wanna let go of that identity label for whatever reason. I guess it's very American? Haven't we all heard of them being "Italian" because someone in their lineage at some point came from Italy but today they eat spaghetti with ketchup? 😅
And I wouldn't say it's a competition but when the biggest guns and bombs are consistently aimed and dropped on the same group, and it's not the one people keep talking about, something is fishy. Men get abused too, ofc, but if someone kept mentioning female on male beatings and disregarded the male on female ones, some eyebrows would be raised, I bet.
Also, the only religious group I ever see actually be persecuted/harassed is Muslims, lol, how did they appropriate that also?!
That's very easy if both your holy book AND everyone around you feeds into your persecution complex..