this post was submitted on 29 May 2026
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Late Stage Capitalism

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The works of the roots of the vines, of the trees, must be destroyed to keep up the price, and this is the saddest, bitterest thing of all. Carloads of oranges dumped on the ground. The people came for miles to take the fruit, but this could not be. How would they buy oranges at twenty cents a dozen if they could drive out and pick them up? And men with hoses squirt kerosene on the oranges, and they are angry at the crime, angry at the people who have come to take the fruit. A million people hungry, needing the fruit- and kerosene sprayed over the golden mountains. And the smell of rot fills the country. Burn coffee for fuel in the ships. Burn corn to keep warm, it makes a hot fire. Dump potatoes in the rivers and place guards along the banks to keep the hungry people from fishing them out. Slaughter the pigs and bury them, and let the putrescence drip down into the earth.

There is a crime here that goes beyond denunciation. There is a sorrow here that weeping cannot symbolize. There is a failure here that topples all our success. The fertile earth, the straight tree rows, the sturdy trunks, and the ripe fruit. And children dying of pellagra must die because a profit cannot be taken from an orange. And coroners must fill in the certificate- died of malnutrition- because the food must rot, must be forced to rot. The people come with nets to fish for potatoes in the river, and the guards hold them back; they come in rattling cars to get the dumped oranges, but the kerosene is sprayed. And they stand still and watch the potatoes float by, listen to the screaming pigs being killed in a ditch and covered with quick-lime, watch the mountains of oranges slop down to a putrefying ooze; and in the eyes of the people there is the failure; and in the eyes of the hungry there is a growing wrath. In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage.

― John Steinbeck, The Grapes of Wrath

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[–] Avicenna@programming.dev 2 points 23 hours ago

most efficient for billionaires that is

[–] MyVeryRealName@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Why not just sell the fruit wholesale?

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 day ago (2 children)

How would they buy oranges at twenty cents a dozen if they could drive out and pick them up?

[–] MyVeryRealName@lemmy.world 1 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

Which is why you sell it at a lower price instead of giving it away for free... Also, I don't think supermarket buyers are going to pick up supermarket rejects from the ground.

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 1 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

Which is why you sell it at a lower price instead of giving it away for free

Which means all your customers are now buying at that lower price.

I don't understand why people keep trying to argue that this doesn't make sense under the logic of capitalism. If it didn't make sense, why do they do it? Like this isn't so much about arguing what is or isn't economically viable, it's about explaining why food waste happens. The fact is that they don't do what you're suggesting because it's not profitable.

[–] MyVeryRealName@lemmy.world -1 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

Doesn't matter. You'll make more money because of the higher quantity.

Because we still don't understand it. Why waste food instead of selling it? Making a loss is always better than throwing your goods away. Ask any fruit vendor on the streets.

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 0 points 9 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago)

Doesn’t matter. You’ll make more money because of the higher quantity

No, you won't. As evidenced by the fact that they don't do that.

Because we still don’t understand it. Why waste food instead of selling it? Making a loss is always better than throwing your goods away. Ask any fruit vendor on the streets.

There's other expenses that go into selling a banana besides growing it. They have to be shipped, in temperature controlled containers, and they need a place to be displayed and sold.

The costs of production are kept very low by paying low wages and the US intervening whenever workers get uppity (Guatemala, for example), so the main expenses are transportation, maintaining the storefront, and of course advertisement. And "misshapen" bananas are calculated to incur more costs through damaging the brand than the cost of simply overproducing bananas.

This is before getting to the point about artificial scarcity, as described in that quote from The Grapes of Wrath. You're already getting a lower profit margin on the misshapen bananas, but you're also undercutting your own business! By providing that option, you're satisfying people's demand for bananas without making much profit, which is going to reduce the sales on full-priced bananas that you actually profit from. It's not hard to see how it can end up being a net loss.

Of course none of this "makes sense" except within the logic of capitalism, but it does make sense there, which is why it's done.

[–] sureshot0@discuss.online 2 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

I agree with this guy, I would also just drive out to a different neighborhood and sell them wholesale. Nobody has to know they're cheaper over there. Plus rich people don't want to go where the poors are, so they'll never find out.

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 1 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

Plus rich people don’t want to go where the poors are, so they’ll never find out.

Who exactly do you think is making the decision to destroy the food?

[–] sureshot0@discuss.online 2 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

No, the rich people who buy the food and the rich people who make the food belong to two different social classes and often live in different neighborhoods.

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 1 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

I have no idea what you're talking about.

What I'm saying is that the rich people who make the food are the ones who make the decision to destroy it. You can't say, "The rich people will never find out" when they're the ones who would be doing what you're suggesting.

[–] sureshot0@discuss.online 2 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

Oh, I meant the rich people who buy the food will never find out. The people who grow the food are not "rich people" generally, they are land owners and farmers, I don't categorize them in my mind as "rich people" in the same sense. They have generational wealth and are way more well-connected than normal rich people.

Ultra wealthy class grows the food, sells it to the rich, these are two different groups of people who live in different neighborhoods.

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml -1 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

The people who grow the food are not “rich people” generally, they are land owners and farmers, I don’t categorize them in my mind as “rich people” in the same sense. They have generational wealth and are way more well-connected than normal rich people.

What? The companies that own the land are very much run by rich people. And I can't make heads or tails out of the last sentence. Having generational wealth and connections makes them not be rich people?

If anything, you seem to have it backwards. The customers aren't necessarily "rich people," not everyone who buys bananas is rich. Pretty much everyone who owns a banana plantation is.

[–] sureshot0@discuss.online -1 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

Ok man.

Group 1 has generational wealth and land. They are absurdly wealthy to the point where wealth means little to them. They live in the middle of nowhere on farms or on massive complexes. Local government carters to them.

Group 2 is pretty rich, at least compared to me. They live in cities and in the suburbs. Their houses are close together and look similar. They are much more wealthy than the average person but they are not related to nor do they associate with Group 1.

Group 3 is relatively poor or average. They live in apartments or in “bad” suburbs. Their neighborhoods have more diversity and Spanish is often the dominant language.

I don’t know how the demographics look like in your state or if rich and poor are black and white binaries with no varying categories where you live. Grapes of Wrath is about people moving from Oklahoma to California for work.

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml -1 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

Ok? I understand that part, what I don't understand is how group 1 isn't included in "rich people" despite being the richest group. Or what you're saying overall.

[–] sureshot0@discuss.online 0 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago)

I don't consider them regular rich people, as they are the ruling class.

I've explained myself a few times now. I'm sorry if you're unable to understand, but selling a product at a higher price to richer people and selling the excess at a lower price to poorer people is not a concept I made up myself. Good luck in life and have a nice day.

So socialism is when banana not curvy?

[–] gedfromgont@piefed.ca 32 points 2 days ago (5 children)

Sorry, I find it hard to believe that these bananas are not instead sold slightly cheaper for uses where the looks don't matter. E.g. for processing into foods where they essentially just get mashed, like yogurts with banana taste or whatever there is. Also selling them to Zoos as I am sure animals don't care either. Is that really not financially viable?

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 day ago

The scale of demand at zoos is nowhere near the scale of waste. Banana flavoring may be cheaper to produce chemically than shipping real bananas.

Food waste at production is a very real thing.

[–] athatet@lemmy.zip 4 points 1 day ago

Find it hard to believe all you want. Go watch the documentary showing that it’s happening.

[–] quick_snail@feddit.nl 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I saw it with my own eyes. There were huge piles of bananas in between plantations in one of the biggest banana producing countries here in South America.

I picked through them and salvaged a few.

Probably many are sold to pig farms, but there were still huge piles just rotting on the side of the highway

[–] MyVeryRealName@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Why don't people just pick them up?

[–] quick_snail@feddit.nl 4 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Plantations are pretty far from cities

And the locals that live near the plantations all have their own banana grass

[–] MyVeryRealName@lemmy.world 1 points 9 hours ago

But why dump bananas? Why not sell everything?

[–] idiomaddict@lemmy.world 6 points 2 days ago (2 children)

How often do you eat something commercially produced and banana flavored with real banana compared to eating an actual banana (or even seeing the products in the store, if you’re not a banana person), though? If that were a viable use for the waste, it would be like 40:60 (because zoo populations are insignificant compared to humans). For me, it’s about 5:95, and that’s only because I like Bananenweizen.

[–] kartoffelsaft@programming.dev 5 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Banana pudding, banana bread (storebought), strawberry banana V8, banana chips? I don't eat a lot of bananas so maybe I'm an outlier but I could see my banana intake being over half non-photogenic from the above listed.

[–] idiomaddict@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

Yeah, it was a totally genuine question, I don’t know what the average is. Banana bread and twinkies occurred to me (but tbh, I suspect most banana bread consumed is homemade and twinkies are probably artificially flavored), but the others didn’t, because I’m too cheap to buy most of those. No idea if I’m an outlier either.

[–] gedfromgont@piefed.ca 2 points 2 days ago

I guess it is also cheaper to get artificial flavour instead, bit sad.

[–] lightnsfw@reddthat.com 2 points 1 day ago

Probably is, there just isn't enough demand in those areas to use all of it.

There's still hungry people all over the world though. Disposing of food at this scale should be a crime.

[–] Bluewing@lemmy.world -3 points 23 hours ago (4 children)

This is a customer problem. Those farmers would happily sell those bananas. Customers, (and that includes anyone buying a banana), will NOT buy odd looking or blemished fruits or vegetables. Y'all just want the perfect ones.

So if you want to piss on capitalism, (for all its other many flaws). You better also be pissing on yourself in this instance. Customers set the tone here. And that's where the blame lies in this case.

[–] Jankatarch@lemmy.world 3 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 21 hours ago) (1 children)

Sell them in a low-income neighborhood for slightly less profit, it's not that complicated.

Alternatively just donate them.

[–] Bluewing@lemmy.world 1 points 11 minutes ago

Go right ahead and try. See how that turns out for you.......

[–] ironycanal@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 21 hours ago

Yeah! I would never take the option I have literally never been given! How dare I cause 40% of bananas to be discarded!

Clearly the system works, if I'm making decisions like this. Markets are so efficient, they find my preferences before I do.

[–] K1nsey6@lemmy.world 4 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

How many customers do you think are going to Guatemala to buy bananas?

[–] Bluewing@lemmy.world -3 points 22 hours ago

You go to the grocery store to buy them. The grocery store has had plenty lessons on just what you will buy and what you won't. The grocery store won't buy those odd bananas from their distributor because they have learned that YOU won't buy them. The distributor won't buy the odd bananas because they also know you won't buy them. And neither the grocery or the distributor want to buy a product they know they will end up having to pay for disposal costs when those bananas go bad because you refuse to buy them. And this goes for all the produce in the store. Only the very finest and freshest produce for you!

Someone needs to eat the cost of disposal of things you won't eat because it's not good enough for you. And I'm fine with Dole and Chiquita eating those costs.

[–] postmateDumbass@lemmy.world 1 points 23 hours ago

The way the math works it will always be more profitable to destroy some amount.

[–] Korhaka@sopuli.xyz 15 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Recently started growing my own veg, been growing herbs for longer. A lot of veg doesn't really look like they do in supermarkets. Sometimes it might but a lot don't.

I know Aldi sell "wonky veg" which is more like it. If I am cutting it up anyway why would I care what shape a carrot is?

[–] yakko@feddit.uk 4 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I intentionally cut my carrots unevenly, it creates more textural interest.

Really hate to be reminded what they do to bananas. You could change the world with cheap banana beer.

[–] Korhaka@sopuli.xyz 7 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Bananas are fruit so we could pretend to be fancy and call it banana wine.

[–] yakko@feddit.uk 3 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Add a little honey and you've got babanomel

[–] Valmond@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 day ago

And alcohol free banana wine preparation, comes in biodegradable package, just add milk and stir.

[–] ParlimentOfDoom@piefed.zip 0 points 2 days ago (1 children)

The majority of the fermentable sugars would have to be honey for it to be a bananamel.

[–] yakko@feddit.uk 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Found u/StormBeforeDawn's Lemmy account 😄

[–] ParlimentOfDoom@piefed.zip 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Is knowing how mead is made a secret held by a singular person on the Internet?

[–] yakko@feddit.uk 1 points 1 day ago

Well, he acts like it anyway. Was just trying it on for size, how great would it have been if I was right?

[–] TRBoom@lemmy.zip 5 points 2 days ago

See the problem here is that they're not applying TRUE capitalism.

These ugly bananas at the very least should be sold for pig feed or converted into banana liqueur. Just like Henry Ford with all his extra wood, a true capitalist would turn waste into profit!

And put all the landlords into jail and redistribute their property to their tenants

/s

[–] nosuchanon@lemmy.world 7 points 2 days ago

The capitalistic system is only efficient for the owners. Forever everyone else it is a miserable resource extracting time wasting form of slavery

[–] gandalf_der_12te@feddit.org 1 points 2 days ago

food waste is good; that way we are prepared for a true natural disaster