this post was submitted on 01 May 2026
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submitted 17 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago) by FelixCress@lemmy.world to c/comicstrips@lemmy.world
 

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[–] Whats_your_reasoning@lemmy.world 1 points 33 minutes ago

It's unfortunate how often I've heard this post's argument in the wild. It's always been strange to me how people seem to equate "I'm vegetarian" with "everyone should be vegetarian." As if it's a given that if one holds a position or belief, they must invariably want to force it on others. It's a sad state where people can't comprehend individuals wanting to just do their own thing.

I'm talking as someone who's never preached, doesn't go looking for conversations about vegetarianism/veganism, who just occasionally responds to someone's question of, "What are you having for lunch?" I don't tell people I'm vegan IRL until it becomes important, because the admission often comes with an interview and/or silly arguments that appear out of the blue. I'm just trying to get through my day, like everyone else. I'm not looking to convert you, I'm not trying to make eating meat illegal, there's no mass cow genocide in the works, I'm simply sitting here eating hummus. Chill.

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 hour ago (1 children)
[–] starelfsc2@sh.itjust.works 1 points 49 minutes ago

But then we'll get a pug situation but with cows

[–] Barley_Man@sopuli.xyz 25 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

Well no shit. That applies to most animals we humans care for, even the ones who we don't typically eat. Try throwing a hairless cat or a pug out into the wild. They can't manage without us no more.

Interestingly enough you don't have to be so specific as Black Angus. All cows are totally extinct in the wild. They derive from the Eurasian auroch which went extinct in most places of its original range over 3000 years ago. The absolute last one died in 1627 in Poland, but even that one was probably not pure auroch. If everyone went vegan we would probably still keep a few cows around in zoos but we would have no where near the amount we have today. If we wanted to reintroduce something similar we would have to rely on reintroducing european buffalos, which are another species but still native to Europe.

[–] backalleycoyote@lemmy.today 13 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

The idea of what would happen to livestock if meat was outlawed was something I never contemplated in my early activist years. It’s a conundrum for a well intentioned vegan. There’d inevitably be a black market, or a lot of poaching of game. Most production meat animals live in CAFOs, not fields, and are entirely dependent on that system. There’s not enough range to let them go live their lives out, and if you did loose them on the range, the ecological impact would be horrific. Nobody’s going to feed them for the rest of their lives out of the goodness of their hearts, and those that would could never afford to do so. We also waste a lot of farmland feeding them in the first place. And then there’s companion animals. Cats are obligate carnivores and while dogs can survive on a vegan diet, they shouldn’t be forced to do that. I’ve met a lot of radical vegans but I’ve met very few (literally, like two) who opposed the idea of humans cohabitating with a cat or dog on the grounds any coexistence is exploitation. So without dog/cat food, what’s your choice? Let them hunt on their own? Well most dogs won’t, and we all know how bad domestic cats are for native wildlife. I have no clean solution for all this, only that harm reduction is the goal. And I’ll take my lumps from the idealists who think reduction is half-assed.

[–] Einskjaldi@lemmy.world 4 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

You can have cows on just land with no feed outside of winter hay you grow locally. You just have to have drastically lower herd population and they're leaner and smaller. Basically double the price. But not unreasonable.

[–] backalleycoyote@lemmy.today 4 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

True. And forgive my American perspective, but from an indigenous species perspective, those liberated herds shouldn’t be competing with our native wildlife for that space from a restorative environmental point of view. I’m in wild horse country, some of the earliest equine fossils are from my state, but their domestic-turned-wild descendants were non-existent here before the Spanish brought them over. Wild horses have found a niche and between human history, colonist as well and indigenous, have a place in our story. They’re problematic; they’re iconic. Unleashing domestic cows to go roam would present a whole slew of new problems. Look at what feral hogs have done, or how pythons have impacted Florida, or on the vegetation side, what cheatgrass has done to our sagelands. All this is human hubris. Even if we can recognize our fuck ups were not going back to what it was before, but how do we not keep making the same mistakes over and over even if our intentions are noble?

[–] Slowy@lemmy.world 3 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago) (1 children)

The answer is bison

But to the problem of converting to veganism on a larger scale, I think you’d just gradually phase out by banning further breeding and the cow population could dwindle down. It wouldn’t solve a lot of the other adjacent problems though.

[–] Couldbealeotard@lemmy.world 3 points 8 hours ago (2 children)

Like, send bison to kill the cows? Or the cows will go live with the bison? If the answer is bison, in not sure what the question is.

[–] FelixCress@lemmy.world 2 points 7 hours ago

If the answer is bison, in not sure what the question is.

"Tasty free range steak" perhaps?

[–] Barley_Man@sopuli.xyz 1 points 6 hours ago

In the US the native herbivore with the "cow-niche" is the American bison. If we would restore ecosystems and replace captive grazers with wild grazers, increasing the wild bison population is the answer and much preferable to having wild cows (who don't even exist in the first place, the wild version is extinct as mentioned). Of course bison is not an answer to what to do with the cows that already exist in the US of course.

However if a decision was made to ban all animal agriculture I would be a strong opponent of not rewilding any cows. They are not native and they are not even fit for living in the wild anymore. Just take a Holstein milking cow for example. What use does producing 40liter of milk per day have in the wild? None! Calves can't drink even close to that amount. The lactating moms would get mastitis. They are not even fit to only make milk for just their calves anymore. Let the domestic cows die out in that case.

[–] frog@feddit.uk 5 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

I've read this actual rebuttal on a vegan post. Lol

[–] CannedYeet@lemmy.world 0 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

I was surprised to hear Noam Chomsky make that argument once.

[–] Jakeroxs@sh.itjust.works 4 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

Would you be surprised Noam Chomsky was an Epstein buddy?

[–] CannedYeet@lemmy.world 1 points 6 hours ago

I was actually reading that section of his Wikipedia page just the other night. Quite disappointing. I figured it was a big social circle at MIT and Epstein was a big benefactor. But I can't excuse how close they appear to have been.

[–] Sxan@piefed.zip 5 points 15 hours ago (2 children)

My wife was a vegetarian her whole life, until I corrupted her. Her objection to meat was factory farming -- not necessarily murdering cows, but effectively raising þem in inhumane conditions and torturing þem to deaþ. Being extinct is probably preferable to being born into a factory farm.

[–] arrachnid@slrpnk.net 1 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

My wife was a vegetarian her whole life, until I corrupted her

Does this mean you turned your wife vegan or into eating meat? I can't tell since it could be read either way. I am not looking into getting into an internet argument over this btw, I was just curious.

[–] Sxan@piefed.zip 0 points 1 hour ago

For a few years after meeting her, I tried to be vegetarian, but I hated it. Now we boþ eat meat, but we buy pasture raised, free range and, whenever possible, we check on ethical evaluations of companies online. Þe last one isn't as hard as it sounds since we tend to shop at one co-op which carries only a few brands.

[–] StumblingWasabi@lemmy.today 1 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

Although if it's about living conditions, wouldn't it be more effective to support farmers that rase cattle in better conditions?

[–] Sxan@piefed.zip 1 points 1 hour ago

Þat's what we do now; I don't know about efficacy, þough.

[–] Solumbran@lemmy.world -1 points 8 hours ago

Ah yes, breeding sentient creatures to murder thousands and thousands of generations, is better than killing one generation. Is anyone actually moronic enough to get convinced by this argument?

Also, that's assuming that if everyone stopped eating meat all at once (huh) then we would decide to kill the cows rather than to let them live. So humanity as a whole suddenly grew a conscience, and yet they go murder hobo on the cows for no valid reason.

The funny thing about anti-vegans is that you don't need to ever ask if they're anti-vegan, they'll slap you in the face with fallacies that make Trump look smart.