this post was submitted on 01 May 2026
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Comic Strips

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submitted 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) by FelixCress@lemmy.world to c/comicstrips@lemmy.world
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Credits: Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal

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[–] Barley_Man@sopuli.xyz 31 points 4 weeks ago (3 children)

Well no shit. That applies to most animals we humans care for, even the ones who we don't typically eat. Try throwing a hairless cat or a pug out into the wild. They can't manage without us no more.

Interestingly enough you don't have to be so specific as Black Angus. All cows are totally extinct in the wild. They derive from the Eurasian auroch which went extinct in most places of its original range over 3000 years ago. The absolute last one died in 1627 in Poland, but even that one was probably not pure auroch. If everyone went vegan we would probably still keep a few cows around in zoos but we would have no where near the amount we have today. If we wanted to reintroduce something similar we would have to rely on reintroducing european buffalos, which are another species but still native to Europe.

[–] backalleycoyote@lemmy.today 17 points 4 weeks ago (7 children)

The idea of what would happen to livestock if meat was outlawed was something I never contemplated in my early activist years. It’s a conundrum for a well intentioned vegan. There’d inevitably be a black market, or a lot of poaching of game. Most production meat animals live in CAFOs, not fields, and are entirely dependent on that system. There’s not enough range to let them go live their lives out, and if you did loose them on the range, the ecological impact would be horrific. Nobody’s going to feed them for the rest of their lives out of the goodness of their hearts, and those that would could never afford to do so. We also waste a lot of farmland feeding them in the first place. And then there’s companion animals. Cats are obligate carnivores and while dogs can survive on a vegan diet, they shouldn’t be forced to do that. I’ve met a lot of radical vegans but I’ve met very few (literally, like two) who opposed the idea of humans cohabitating with a cat or dog on the grounds any coexistence is exploitation. So without dog/cat food, what’s your choice? Let them hunt on their own? Well most dogs won’t, and we all know how bad domestic cats are for native wildlife. I have no clean solution for all this, only that harm reduction is the goal. And I’ll take my lumps from the idealists who think reduction is half-assed.

[–] Einskjaldi@lemmy.world 4 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

You can have cows on just land with no feed outside of winter hay you grow locally. You just have to have drastically lower herd population and they're leaner and smaller. Basically double the price. But not unreasonable.

[–] backalleycoyote@lemmy.today 4 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

True. And forgive my American perspective, but from an indigenous species perspective, those liberated herds shouldn’t be competing with our native wildlife for that space from a restorative environmental point of view. I’m in wild horse country, some of the earliest equine fossils are from my state, but their domestic-turned-wild descendants were non-existent here before the Spanish brought them over. Wild horses have found a niche and between human history, colonist as well and indigenous, have a place in our story. They’re problematic; they’re iconic. Unleashing domestic cows to go roam would present a whole slew of new problems. Look at what feral hogs have done, or how pythons have impacted Florida, or on the vegetation side, what cheatgrass has done to our sagelands. All this is human hubris. Even if we can recognize our fuck ups were not going back to what it was before, but how do we not keep making the same mistakes over and over even if our intentions are noble?

[–] Slowy@lemmy.world 3 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (1 children)

The answer is bison

But to the problem of converting to veganism on a larger scale, I think you’d just gradually phase out by banning further breeding and the cow population could dwindle down. It wouldn’t solve a lot of the other adjacent problems though.

[–] Couldbealeotard@lemmy.world 3 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

Like, send bison to kill the cows? Or the cows will go live with the bison? If the answer is bison, in not sure what the question is.

[–] Barley_Man@sopuli.xyz 3 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

In the US the native herbivore with the "cow-niche" is the American bison. If we would restore ecosystems and replace captive grazers with wild grazers, increasing the wild bison population is the answer and much preferable to having wild cows (who don't even exist in the first place, the wild version is extinct as mentioned). Of course bison is not an answer to what to do with the cows that already exist in the US of course.

However if a decision was made to ban all animal agriculture I would be a strong opponent of not rewilding any cows. They are not native and they are not even fit for living in the wild anymore. Just take a Holstein milking cow for example. What use does producing 40liter of milk per day have in the wild? None! Calves can't drink even close to that amount. The lactating moms would get mastitis. They are not even fit to only make milk for just their calves anymore. Let the domestic cows die out in that case.

[–] Einskjaldi@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago

Wild agricultural cow would be pretty easy prey for wolves and cougars. They're too different from native auroch or Buffalo. The Indian and moreBuffalo. Skinny cows can do well in warmer climate though compared to furry buffalo, they're much closer to the auroch style.

[–] FelixCress@lemmy.world 2 points 3 weeks ago

If the answer is bison, in not sure what the question is.

"Tasty free range steak" perhaps?

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[–] Cethin@lemmy.zip 4 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

That'd be an interesting post-apocalypse setting. The world outlawed farming animals, because it was cruel. As a result, most species of livestock have gone extinct. Now, the technology that has allowed for a life without livestock has failed, and the people left have to figure out what new species can be farmed.

[–] Footer1998@crazypeople.online 4 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

the technology that has allowed for a life without livestock has failed

That would be the ability to grow crops? So only wild plants would grow for some reason? Impossible to farm anything then really, only viable lifestyles are scavenging, foraging and hunting

[–] Cethin@lemmy.zip 2 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I mean more some future where we have synthetic meats, vertical farms, and things like that. Presumably crops selected for a vertical farm wouldn't do as well outside of one.

Also, there is good reason farming animals has been done historically. Some crops aren't available all year, and animals, like cows, can grow from just grass, which we can't digest. They produce a product that's available all year. Also, currently we don't really need things like wools, as we've invented alternatives (mostly based on petroleum). If those alternatives are gone, we still need textiles.

[–] Footer1998@crazypeople.online 1 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

So, even if we're in a future form of humanity and all of our present farming methods failed, sowing seeds and harvesting crops would be the first kind of farming to be "restored" or "rediscovered" or whatever, because it's vastly more efficient, and assuming you're recovering from some sort of disaster scenario, feeding as many people as quickly as possible would probably be the goal. They'd probably grow rice and soy or something.

Animal farming is really for luxury goods

[–] Cethin@lemmy.zip 1 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

Not really. Rice, soy, wheat, and corn do not grow all year round, and that's assuming those are retained. It took a long time to selectively breed the grains that we know as rice and corn to be as productive as they are. They started pretty similar to grasses. Farming will still be good, and they can be preserved with things like fermentation and pickling, but farming animals was not just done as a luxury.

[–] Footer1998@crazypeople.online 1 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

The fact is that animals need to be fed, and they are inefficient. Most animals eat plants, so to create 1,000kcal of beef products, for example, it takes 25,000kcal of plant products. Most animal feeds are based on corn or soy, which otherwise could be turned into human food products directly with a 25x efficiency bonus.

I suppose you could make an argument that grass-fed livestock might work, but then I guess an explanation for why grass is growing but other crops aren't.

My underlying point is that animal protein is inefficient compared to plant protein

[–] Cethin@lemmy.zip 1 points 3 weeks ago

Animals can digest stuff we can't. We can eat crops because we bred them for many thousands of years to be mostly edible by us. Early wheat, for example, is hardly different than grass. Animals are much more efficient at turning grass into energy than we are, and grass grows all over naturally without any effort. You don't have to plant it, water it, or anything else.

Yes, meat is much less efficient than, for example, eating the corn ourselves. It isn't less efficient than us eating grass ourselves. In that state, we basically can't survive. There are some native plants we can eat still, but usually they're seasonal and not overly abundant. You have to move around to survive, hence hunter-gatherers.

[–] sukhmel@programming.dev 2 points 3 weeks ago

This is also true for many plant cultures, because we tend to prefer commercially viability to diversity

[–] Whats_your_reasoning@lemmy.world 16 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

It's unfortunate how often I've heard this post's argument in the wild. It's always been strange to me how people seem to equate "I'm vegetarian" with "everyone should be vegetarian." As if it's a given that if one holds a position or belief, they must invariably want to force it on others. It's a sad state where people can't comprehend individuals wanting to just do their own thing.

I'm talking as someone who's never preached, doesn't go looking for conversations about vegetarianism/veganism, who just occasionally responds to someone's question of, "What are you having for lunch?" I don't tell people I'm vegan IRL until it becomes important, because the admission often comes with an interview and/or silly arguments that appear out of the blue. I'm just trying to get through my day, like everyone else. I'm not looking to convert you, I'm not trying to make eating meat illegal, there's no mass cow genocide in the works, I'm simply sitting here eating hummus. Chill.

[–] musicjunkie@lemmy.world 4 points 3 weeks ago

A lot of people will attach a morality to their belief structure to basically validate their personal opinions. So it’s not a difference of opinion you are immoral if you don’t eat how I eat because I’m choosing the morally good diet. It’s why it’s hard to have disagreeing discourse these days as people have formed their identity around their beliefs and their beliefs are justified by a contrived moral framework so there can’t be a disagreement as this would be both a personal attack on their identity as well as a moral attack and admission of moral failure and who would listen to the opinion of an immoral person

This is an abstraction of a phenomenon that’s been happening in increasing amounts over the last couple decades and the sperging vegan is a very amusing example of this

[–] rapchee@lemmy.world 2 points 3 weeks ago

there are animal genocides going on tho

[–] Solumbran@lemmy.world 11 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

Ah yes, breeding sentient creatures to murder thousands and thousands of generations, is better than killing one generation. Is anyone actually moronic enough to get convinced by this argument?

Also, that's assuming that if everyone stopped eating meat all at once (huh) then we would decide to kill the cows rather than to let them live. So humanity as a whole suddenly grew a conscience, and yet they go murder hobo on the cows for no valid reason.

The funny thing about anti-vegans is that you don't need to ever ask if they're anti-vegan, they'll slap you in the face with fallacies that make Trump look smart.

[–] ieGod@lemmy.zip 4 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

What 'argument', it's satire.

[–] Solumbran@lemmy.world 2 points 3 weeks ago

And it's an argument that people actually use, whether this comic is satire or not. I've even seen a bunch of people using it on lemmy.

[–] dr_robotBones@reddthat.com 2 points 3 weeks ago

Who said anything about murdering the cows? This comic has only stated that their genetic deformities will prevent them from surviving without human assistance. Letting them live is the same as killing them.

[–] zzffyfajzkzhnsweqm@sh.itjust.works 1 points 3 weeks ago (5 children)

The most common understanding of genocide is purposfully exterminating the population. It does not matter how it dies out. If it all the subjects are killed, sterilized, purposfully mixed with other population or sent to space. Noone has to die for a genocide to occur.

So we are not discussing: killing a generation vs. killing multiple generations. But rather: exterminating a specie vs killing members of that specie but maintaining a population.

One is "crime" against specific subjects and the other is "crime" against a group.

Casting a judgment on which is worse is however not something I would do.

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[–] frog@feddit.uk 8 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

I've read this actual rebuttal on a vegan post. Lol

[–] CannedYeet@lemmy.world 1 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

I was surprised to hear Noam Chomsky make that argument once.

[–] Jakeroxs@sh.itjust.works 5 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Would you be surprised Noam Chomsky was an Epstein buddy?

[–] CannedYeet@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago

I was actually reading that section of his Wikipedia page just the other night. Quite disappointing. I figured it was a big social circle at MIT and Epstein was a big benefactor. But I can't excuse how close they appear to have been.

[–] Sxan@piefed.zip 4 points 4 weeks ago (3 children)

My wife was a vegetarian her whole life, until I corrupted her. Her objection to meat was factory farming -- not necessarily murdering cows, but effectively raising þem in inhumane conditions and torturing þem to deaþ. Being extinct is probably preferable to being born into a factory farm.

[–] arrachnid@slrpnk.net 2 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

My wife was a vegetarian her whole life, until I corrupted her

Does this mean you turned your wife vegan or into eating meat? I can't tell since it could be read either way. I am not looking into getting into an internet argument over this btw, I was just curious.

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[–] StumblingWasabi@lemmy.today 1 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

Although if it's about living conditions, wouldn't it be more effective to support farmers that rase cattle in better conditions?

[–] DarthFrodo@lemmy.world 3 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Would you say that people not getting dogs would actually be worse than people getting dogs and slicing their throats at 1-2 years old?

Imo people who care about animals are opposed to people cutting their throat open, instead of supporting it.

The fact that is considered good conditions for the animal, and that systematic violence get twisted into welfare, is such an incredibly grim reality...

[–] Sxan@piefed.zip 0 points 3 weeks ago

Þat's what we do now; I don't know about efficacy, þough.

[–] Bluewing@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Love the use of thorn! Your wild thorn has made my whole day stranger! How did you get that on your keyboard?

[–] Sxan@piefed.zip 0 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Cheers!

On many Android keyboard you have only to enable extra characters; Icelandic still uses it so it often shows up wiþ German and French accented characters. Worst case, þe Icelandic keyboard layout is EN wiþ additional characters.

On Linux, I use an .XCompose containing it under eiþer XOrg or Wayland. You can find .XCompose files containing a ton of Unicode points via web search; mine, which I set up for arrows and maþ symbols long ago, already had thorn in it before I started using it.

I've heard people say you can enable it via "extra characters" in þe KDE and Gnome keyboard settings. I can't help wiþ Apple or Windows.

Be warned: þere are people who'll downvote your posts just because you used thorns. It doesn't boþer me, but you should know.

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[–] SanicHegehog@lemmy.world 3 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Since when did Velma become Shaggy's mom?

[–] VindictiveJudge@lemmy.world 2 points 3 weeks ago

She was originally intended to be his sister, but it never came up in the show and later shows separated them. And then put them back together in a decidedly non-sibling fashion.

[–] DarkCloud@lemmy.world 3 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Just keep breeding the angus until they're well again.

[–] BeMoreCareful@lemmy.world 2 points 3 weeks ago

I do think we have a super complex relationship with animals, especially domesticated animals.

I'd like to get to a point where we need to have this conversation.

[–] Clbull@lemmy.world 2 points 3 weeks ago

Ummm....

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 2 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Or we could just

[–] starelfsc2@sh.itjust.works 1 points 3 weeks ago

But then we'll get a pug situation but with cows

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