this post was submitted on 10 Feb 2026
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Thought this might spur some decent discussion. Lots of libs in the comments but a few good points made.

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[–] oscardejarjayes@hexbear.net 8 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago) (1 children)

On one hand way too few leftists mask, on the other hand the only people I know still masking are leftists. The only orgs, meetings, and groups that require masks in my area are leftist. I'm sure some individual liberals mask, but not many, and important liberal groups seem to not mask at all. The IWW convention mandatory masks, IWW branches mostly mandate masks, the SWP mandates masks, local PSL mandates masks (idk about nationally), local picket group mandates mask, local DSA masks, etc.

It's just kinda hard for me to appreciate this punching left when every criticism is 1000 times worse among every other political position. Biden literally ended masking mandates nationally, and long ago stopped wearing masks.

Leftists aren't doing enough, but nobody else is doing anything, at all. Influential liberals have stopped masking years ago, influential right-wingers never masked, influential "non-political" or "centrist" people might as well be those right-wingers with how little they mask.

[–] ComradeRat@hexbear.net 3 points 4 hours ago

One of the big issues is leftist isnt monolithic. Where I am the communist party and young communist league both consist entirely of anti-maskers who advocate minimal online meetings and maximum group dinners. All four communist orgs in my city are the same in this regard. Its very demoralising lol

[–] LeninWeave@hexbear.net 9 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago)

The linked thread is mostly garbage for the simple reason that many of the people in it clearly don't know what "left" means, so it's an eclectic mix of vague but mostly correct critiques of leftist groups and people who are talking about the Democrats (including likely OOP, who defensively assures commenters "they still voted").

Edit: elsewhere in the thread, OP says "Leftists consider liberals as very non-serious", so it certainly seems like OP is a radlib and not a leftist. As purpleworm pointed out, very suspicious to title the thread "any leftists" instead of "non-masking leftists" or something similar.

[–] purpleworm@hexbear.net 8 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

Not even bothering to title the thread with "non-masking leftists" and instead "any leftists" as though no leftist masks is astroturf behavior.

[–] LeninWeave@hexbear.net 9 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago)

This is a great point. And OP is in the comments saying "Please don’t get me wrong, I still voted" so I think they might not know what a "leftist" actually is. Sadly the linked thread is a mix of liberals and a few leftists, and as far as I can tell the liberals are replying to the leftists as though they're talking about Democrats, so the whole discussion ends up being completely useless.

[–] JoeByeThen@hexbear.net 20 points 14 hours ago (2 children)

Yeah, I saw this and considered posting it, but I couldn't come up with a commentary on it that didn't involve lots of expletives towards the people here who don't mask. Totally some libs in the comments, but they are absolutely right and the supposed "leftists" who are abandoning the sick and disabled are a bunch of libs.

[–] LeninWeave@hexbear.net 8 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago) (1 children)

The linked thread is largely full of liberals punching left as though they're not the ones who created this situation (OP defensively assuring people they "still voted" as if the Democrats weren't the original architects of the spread of this disease while claiming in the title that no leftists are COVID conscious), but it's true that a lot of self-proclaimed "leftists" seem to have a serious problem with the idea of leading by example and taking very basic and very easy precautions when organizing.

[–] JoeByeThen@hexbear.net 9 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

Fact of the matter is I could take the majority of criticism in this thread and drop it in a Lemmy world thread being angry at hexbear for going after dems and it would fit right in. Yeah, they're libs punching left, so what. In this matter, The Left should stop being so fucking punchable. The vast majority of THIS WEBSITE is anti-mask and pro-eugenics in practice. "The libs believe their vote matters," well the folks who should be educating them about that don't believe these folks' lives matter. So, you'll have to forgive me if I find all this "punching left" rhetoric rather laughable.

[–] LeninWeave@hexbear.net 6 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago) (1 children)

Agreed. I just find it disturbing that OOP is seemingly proud of their vote for the Democrats, who essentially created the mainstream acceptable form of COVID denialism in the USA (and many other places) today. If anything, the problem with the US left is they have largely adopted the liberal position on this issue.

I agree the state of the discourse on this issue on this website is deplorable. I find it tolerable because it at least gets push-back here even in non-explicitly-COVID-focused spaces.

[–] JoeByeThen@hexbear.net 6 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

Sure, and if that were the heart of the post it might be worth going on about it, but it's not. This post is about people who have been abandoned getting mad at the folks they were told are their allies, their protectors. Some of these folks are libs, some of them are actual leftists, which is why there's such a broad spectrum of "leftists" being blamed in the comments; ZCC is a mishmash of folks largely there not by choice. In another thread, commentary like that usually gets more pushback. ZCC should be one of the ultimate grounds for Leftist agitation and radicalization, instead it's this.

[–] LeninWeave@hexbear.net 7 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago)

Agreed, actually, you make a great point especially that ZCC should be the best space for leftist agitation. And re-reading OP in isolation (originally I just skimmed it and read the comments) it's clearly valid frustration. I guess I was just sensitive to the Democrat thing, because I remember watching in real-time as they acted as the vanguard of global COVID denialism.

[–] AssortedBiscuits@hexbear.net 3 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

The million dollar question is which is worse: liberals who mask or leftists who don't mask?

[–] JoeByeThen@hexbear.net 1 points 1 hour ago

A liberal exhibiting growth or a leftist ignoring an ongoing pandemic and an opportunity to undermine the panopticon ? Not that hard a choice, imo.

[–] CyborgMarx@hexbear.net 8 points 15 hours ago (3 children)

Delusional woke scolding liberals who systematically miss the forest for the trees and seem to always suspiciously lay the blame for society's ills back on the left that isn't in power

Hmm, where have I seen this tired formula before? seen-this-one

[–] mononoke@lemmy.sdf.org 17 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago) (1 children)

What forest is being missed for what trees by saying "I am not safe and cannot participate if you, the movement of the people, do not do anything to prevent the spread of a virus among the people that does cumulative, permanent damage to the whole body and at present has no cure or treatment"? Please tell me.

[–] CyborgMarx@hexbear.net 7 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

The "forest" is the obvious fact society's cavalier attitude toward covid is not the fault of the left and certainly not the fault of whatever individual popular leftists ticked that user off, but instead of grappling with those basic facts and constructing an analysis that can lead to actionable practical corrections made by both orgs and individuals, the libs in that thread want to moralize ad nasuasum as if the wider left is in any position to dictate health policies for anything other than the most irrevleant spaces

[–] mononoke@lemmy.sdf.org 10 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

"Society doesn't do it so we can't be expected to either" is not the justification I would use when talking about supposed groups of revolutionaries.

[–] CyborgMarx@hexbear.net 4 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

but instead of grappling with those basic facts and constructing an analysis that can lead to actionable practical corrections made by both orgs and individuals

It's not a matter of "we can't be expected to either" and more a matter of accounting for reality and doing something other than moralizing at the void

[–] mononoke@lemmy.sdf.org 11 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago) (4 children)

And the reality is that masks are easily procured and distributed where it is possible, which is a fair amount of places! You can read my other posts in this thread about what this looks like "in reality" if you are actually curious about this and not just doing the abrasive internet argument thing, which I am not hopeful is the case. Just about every urban center in the US and then some has a COVID-aware mask bloc very eager to help any group or demonstration with logistics, supply, and education when it is wanted. Guess when it is wanted, and by which organizations? The answer is never, and none. That is not a matter of logistics and lack of holistic analysis, but a matter of will. None of you think this matters enough to do something about it when the doing is indeed very doable. When's the last time you wore a mask, or did anything to help mitigate the spread of COVID in your organizing? I can probably make a good guess: not anytime in the last...I'll say 4 years, at least? But nothing has materially changed since then, except that disease has gotten even worse around the board, which sounds like even more of an argument in favor of being militant about the prevention of its spread. Respirators are in fact easier than ever to come by. They practically give them away surplus now, and there's nothing functionally wrong with them. Where is your analysis? Where is your action?

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[–] Blockocheese@hexbear.net 4 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

woke scolding

Opinion disregarded

[–] CyborgMarx@hexbear.net 3 points 10 hours ago

If this was 2019, I'd be devastated

[–] starkillerfish@hexbear.net 11 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

If you are in an org you have the power to make that org accessible / safe.

[–] CyborgMarx@hexbear.net 8 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

Everyday I’m shocked at how many popular “leftists” on the internet (& in my personal life) don’t mask. I want leaders & educators to look up to but can’t help feeling betrayed, confused, and honestly embarrassed for them about their lack of awareness or care.

Does this strike you as a person who cares about orgs? What they seem to care about is feeling superior to their parasocial crushes online

[–] rootsbreadandmakka@hexbear.net 11 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago) (1 children)

Expecting the people who cast themselves as leaders of a movement to actually practice what they preach is not some sort of selfish desire to feel superior

[–] CyborgMarx@hexbear.net 3 points 13 hours ago (3 children)

Hoisting your leadership on a pedestal and refusing to allow them the right of exigency and practicality is selfish behavior

The left is not in any position to organize society along health-friendly lines, yet every lib in that thread seems to think they live in a reality where that is the case

It's a refusal to grasp functional context is any serious way, and instead confuses demoralization with nominal notions of accountability, in other words next to useless crap

[–] ComradeRat@hexbear.net 2 points 4 hours ago

Step one of being in position to organise society along health friendly lines would be working to make our orgs covid safe instead of complaining about people talking about how our orgs arent covid safe. Wtf are you crashing out over this for

[–] rootsbreadandmakka@hexbear.net 11 points 12 hours ago (19 children)

This is nonsense. You describe a situation where we are not allowed to ask or expect anything of our leaders lest we be deemed selfish. Where we are not allowed to fight for a better society since doing so would just be impractical. Should our forebears have decided that to fight against racism in a fundamentally racist society was impractical, that to fight against homophobia in a fundamentally homophobic society was impractical? If that’s your idea of revolution count me out.

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[–] starkillerfish@hexbear.net 9 points 12 hours ago

The left is not in any position to organize society along health-friendly lines, yet every lib in that thread seems to think they live in a reality where that is the case

yes but people in orgs have the power to organise in a safe way. is that not true?

[–] quarrk@hexbear.net 10 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

Vague posting about “leftists” always feels turfed or at least naive. I don’t see a difference from right-wingers complaining about woke.

This kind of doomerism doesnt help anything. In my opinion, a Marxist doesn’t take the attitude that the people fail the revolutionaries. Only the revolutionaries can fail the people. If the people are struggling to stand with our disabled comrades, then it’s an opportunity for us to step forward and address the root causes, and also to make it easy to do the right thing. E.g. fund free masks, mandate masks within leftist organizational spaces, inform without distancing oneself from the masses.

[–] mononoke@lemmy.sdf.org 15 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago) (2 children)

E.g. fund free masks, mandate masks within leftist organizational spaces, inform without distancing oneself from the masses.

Have you tried doing any of this? Because I have, frequently, along with a bloc of like-minded people, a "mask bloc" if you will, and for 6 years very consistently the attitude among individuals attending protests, demonstrations around my city, and the various organizations that participate in them has been that I am secretly a fed trying to sow discord, I'm bougie for still caring, or that I'm simply a wrecker to be disregarded, and at best, they will tune me out. What other conclusion am I to draw from this reaction? This poster in the linked thread has the right of it:

... the left has always been shockingly terrible on disability awareness/advocacy, and there's a large overlap between that and paying attention to COVID.

We're propagandized from birth to essentially ignore everything related to public health unless you're "at risk" - it's blatantly eugenics propaganda, but the reality is that most people aren't going to confront that until it tangibly personally affects them.

and as everyone loves saying, you are not immune to propaganda. Someone else in the thread posted this, which I also agree with:

Ableism is the most acceptable discrimination ...

Not a single person or group I have worked with IRL that has not already made masking and mitigating COVID a core foundation of their praxis has budged on this in the last half-decade, and it's not because I'm wrong. I wish I was! Thankfully, I believe everyone will come around eventually whether they want to or not, because this level of reckless disregard for health and the constant spread of illness not materially sustainable. The trends since 2020 are consistent and there is a single throughline: COVID negligence. I just wish people would stop being complete nobs about it in the meantime, to put my feelings very, very lightly.

[–] gayspacemarxist@hexbear.net 3 points 11 hours ago

Have you tried doing any of this? Because I have, frequently, along with a bloc of like-minded people, a "mask bloc" if you will, and for 6 years very consistently the attitude among individuals attending protests, demonstrations around my city, and the various organizations that participate in them has been that I am secretly a fed trying to sow discord, I'm bougie for still caring, or that I'm simply a wrecker to be disregarded, and at best, they will tune me out.

Not to be a dick, but it kind of sounds like you all need to refine your approach to talking to people about masking and figure out how to develop a lot more patience because pushing people to change is really hard.

I agree that we need to be better about masking, I agree that orgs could put more emphasis on encouraging people to mask at their events, but it's also true that we have limited attention and resources. Realistically, we need disciplined and well organized pro masking groups to show up in coalition, with other groups, to provide resources and education in a conducive way.

Meeting people where they're at honestly sucks, but if we actually want to reach them, what alternative is there?

[–] quarrk@hexbear.net 8 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

I completely believe you, and agree it’s frustrating. The normalization of Covid is something to criticize.

Disappointment is something to be used to as someone trying to steer a ship against an ocean swell of propaganda. If it’s not disappointment about Covid, it will be about the latent (or blatant) chauvinism among western socialists. Or lack of intersectionality among groups that really should be able to connect their own struggle with another.

Fixating on this disappointment is counter-revolutionary and I don’t see anything useful coming from a Reddit post complaining about “leftists” writ-large, telling people that fighting is useless, telling people to stop showing up to the organizations in which they participate.

[–] mononoke@lemmy.sdf.org 13 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago)

Fixating on this disappointment is counter-revolutionary and I don’t see anything useful coming from a Reddit post complaining about “leftists” writ-large, telling people that fighting is useless, telling people to stop showing up to the organizations in which they participate.

This would be something worth expanding on if the simple act of merely showing up was accessible, but it's not, and it's due to the actions of the masses which refuse to change! That's the point! For someone like me who is immunosuppressed, who is very vulnerable to severe complications from this virus (though no one is immune, is also the point), I am effectively locked out of participating in a movement that is supposed to be my movement until everyone else gets their act together. "We keep us safe," after all, but do you really? Do you see the problem? Should I just sit at home, then? Does your movement truly speak for me, among the lowest of us, if this is the case? No one can answer these questions. I am already being told not to show up, but not by the Reddit libs.

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