this post was submitted on 10 Feb 2026
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Delusional woke scolding liberals who systematically miss the forest for the trees and seem to always suspiciously lay the blame for society's ills back on the left that isn't in power
Hmm, where have I seen this tired formula before?
What forest is being missed for what trees by saying "I am not safe and cannot participate if you, the movement of the people, do not do anything to prevent the spread of a virus among the people that does cumulative, permanent damage to the whole body and at present has no cure or treatment"? Please tell me.
The "forest" is the obvious fact society's cavalier attitude toward covid is not the fault of the left and certainly not the fault of whatever individual popular leftists ticked that user off, but instead of grappling with those basic facts and constructing an analysis that can lead to actionable practical corrections made by both orgs and individuals, the libs in that thread want to moralize ad nasuasum as if the wider left is in any position to dictate health policies for anything other than the most irrevleant spaces
"Society doesn't do it so we can't be expected to either" is not the justification I would use when talking about supposed groups of revolutionaries.
It's not a matter of "we can't be expected to either" and more a matter of accounting for reality and doing something other than moralizing at the void
And the reality is that masks are easily procured and distributed where it is possible, which is a fair amount of places! You can read my other posts in this thread about what this looks like "in reality" if you are actually curious about this and not just doing the abrasive internet argument thing, which I am not hopeful is the case. Just about every urban center in the US and then some has a COVID-aware mask bloc very eager to help any group or demonstration with logistics, supply, and education when it is wanted. Guess when it is wanted, and by which organizations? The answer is never, and none. That is not a matter of logistics and lack of holistic analysis, but a matter of will. None of you think this matters enough to do something about it when the doing is indeed very doable. When's the last time you wore a mask, or did anything to help mitigate the spread of COVID in your organizing? I can probably make a good guess: not anytime in the last...I'll say 4 years, at least? But nothing has materially changed since then, except that disease has gotten even worse around the board, which sounds like even more of an argument in favor of being militant about the prevention of its spread. Respirators are in fact easier than ever to come by. They practically give them away surplus now, and there's nothing functionally wrong with them. Where is your analysis? Where is your action?
Are you telling me or American Society in whole? I mask, you think you're gonna tell me something I don't already know?
Well you better hope that's not the case, cause if it's a battle between your will and the dumb atomized mass of American society, then you're gonna lose
So maybe we should take the need to perform a holistic analysis a little more seriously
There's no united left media ecosystem that can provide a counternarrative to the dual threats of covid denialism and liberal post-pandemic assurances, orgs serious about combating these scourges should be collating long covid data and testimony and sensationalizing it at arenas of media virality like town halls and school board meetings, a mirror strategy to the right's anti-woke crusades at local level during the Biden years.....that's just the start
Did you know that? By the rest of your posts you seem more concerned about "scolds" on the wrong side of the fence correctly criticizing a blind spot in your movements than the fact that these cadres exist and do this work you are telling me is impossible and also not happening. Are you helping to make it happen?
...and they say I'm a "doomer"! Then what's the point of any of this? You've proven the scolds right.
You do understand organizational success is independent of your individualistic WILL? Covid denialism is the result of organization, not willpower, so unlike the scolds in that thread we collectively have to counter-organize against it. And we don't do that by blaming covid denialism on the left......
Hence, we're back to seeing the forest instead of the trees, which was my whole point the entire time
....they've repeatedly talked about their work in covid organising why are you acting like they arent organising? Your behaviour is uncomradely and reeks of bad faith.
If you are in an org you have the power to make that org accessible / safe.
Does this strike you as a person who cares about orgs? What they seem to care about is feeling superior to their parasocial crushes online
Expecting the people who cast themselves as leaders of a movement to actually practice what they preach is not some sort of selfish desire to feel superior
Hoisting your leadership on a pedestal and refusing to allow them the right of exigency and practicality is selfish behavior
The left is not in any position to organize society along health-friendly lines, yet every lib in that thread seems to think they live in a reality where that is the case
It's a refusal to grasp functional context is any serious way, and instead confuses demoralization with nominal notions of accountability, in other words next to useless crap
Step one of being in position to organise society along health friendly lines would be working to make our orgs covid safe instead of complaining about people talking about how our orgs arent covid safe. Wtf are you crashing out over this for
This is nonsense. You describe a situation where we are not allowed to ask or expect anything of our leaders lest we be deemed selfish. Where we are not allowed to fight for a better society since doing so would just be impractical. Should our forebears have decided that to fight against racism in a fundamentally racist society was impractical, that to fight against homophobia in a fundamentally homophobic society was impractical? If that’s your idea of revolution count me out.
The ability of leadership to exercise exigency or practicality does not make them immune to critique or assessment; in fact when we do away with the distracting idealism, we open the path towards a more competent and rigorous application of constructive critique that actually cares about results rather than the appearance of propriety
Are you under the impression none of those movements engaged in pragmatism or the practical application of theory? You think they weren't shooting from one adaptive strategy to the next, you think they were all squeaky clean angels without a problematic bone in their bodies?
You mention my "idea of revolution", I wonder at yours
As far as I can tell, you're not actually saying anything in this comment. What is "exigency and practicality" in this case? What would be the "more competend and rigorous application of constructive critique"?
As far as I can tell, it's pretty easy to figure out; first (unlike the scolds in that thread) recognize the left isn't to blame for Covid denialism; second, elevate the right of remote participation as a universal expectation (something most VTuber groups have figured out) while maintaining the right of leadership and members to organize in certain contexts (particularly outreach) without constant referral to hazmat protocols
And third recognizing the fight over Covid awareness has been temporarily lost due to the sheer nonexistence of organized leftist counter-messaging
All subject to constant reassessment and adaptation as conditions improve or worsen
Leadership and cadres (or at the very least leadership) should be expected to take basic precautions, so that disabled people can participate non-remotely without putting themselves at severe risk. I don't see how this demand is any different from a demand for remote participation. It's much easier for leadership to (for example) lead by example and wear masks, which would do a lot to promote COVID consciousness in orgs, than it is to implement actually effective remote participation in many cases.
Edit: you still haven't said what "exigency and practicality" meant, so I can only assume you meant that "practicality" was leadership taking literally no COVID precautions, which is practical because... ???
Derisively referring to asking people to wear masks as "constant referral to hazmat protocols" is disingenuous.
"I implied my point, it's your fault for not being able to figure it out" isn't an argument. Say what you mean, I'm not reading your mind.
It's also easier to alienate new or potential members due to the dominance of covid denialist narratives in social discourse, and that conundrum shouldn't be met with its own denialism in turn
What's needed far more urgently is not simply COVID consciousness in orgs but also COVID awareness among society at large, and that requires counter-messaging and large-scale media organizing to pull off, which is why a focus on remote participation should be seen as a crucial tide over until said conditions improve
Then the power of example through masking will regain the valence you're looking for
If seeing people wearing masks alienates new participants, those are not participants you want. They would functionally be wreckers. This is blatant tailism.
I'm not talking about dedicated anti-maskers, I'm clearly talking about the average maskless Joe who thru ignroance or inattention is liable to confuse your org for a health support group rather than an instrument to wield political power, in that scenario it's not tailism you'd be facing, it's irrelevance
......Unless that maskless Joe was already primed by sensationalized but accurate accounts of long covid, a Joe who wonders whether the aches and pains he feels daily are the results of the ravages of covid, suddenly a masked org isn't a barrier to entry, but a cultural signal that tells that Joe "these people have their heads on straight"
I think this isn't accurate. Your claim is that someone would go to a meeting and just because the organizers are wearing masks, assume that they walked into the wrong one? Or are you dismissively categorizing (in the mind of the "average Joe") people who wear masks as unable, unwilling, or unworthy of wielding political power?
YES! Have you met the average American these days? When people ask me about the mask I wear at work, I'm not met with hostility, but instead confusion "why are you wearing that, did something happen?", "are you sick?", "is something spreading around, should I wear one?" all questions average Joes and Beckies have asked me in just the last six months
So yes, unless they're primed, the typical American will dismiss or confuse your org for an irrelevant sideshow; that's me pointing out an IS not an OUGHT
Right, this is tailism. "The masses are reactionary on this issue, so we shouldn't be too progressive on it to avoid alienating them". I'm saying once again that the people who see leaders at a meeting masking and leave immediately are reactionaries and should not be catered to because doing so will make the org toxic to disabled people and because these people you're trying to appeal to will not be transformed into good cadres, especially if you cater to their biases instead of challenging them. Which is why tailism doesn't work and is a bad idea.
That's not what I fuckin said, how many times do I need to use the words "counter-messaging" and "primed" before you get what I'm lying down? If I wanted to say we should follow the public's reactionary lead on covid, I would just say so
Instead I'm talking about CHANGING that reactionary sentiment so that combating covid not just in our orgs but in society in general becomes easier, telling the average American dipshit they have long covid is not catering to the anti-mask agenda and castigating a bunch of morose liberals who seem to think demoralizing is best practices in terms of combatting covid denial is not me dismissing the concerns of the disabled
I'm literally saying we need to change the public's opinion on something so our goals become more realizable and you're calling me a fuckin tailist over it, that's funny
Again, the difference between an OUGHT and an IS, and what to do about the IS, so we can get to your OUGHT in a way that doesn't involve your dreams
Great news, tailism works!
There’s pragmatism and there’s inaction and you seem to be arguing for the latter when it comes to anti-Covid organizing
Nah, I'm cogent enough to recognize there are real solutions to problems
Meanwhile, someone screaming about how they can't take leftists seriously because they don't mask is the definition of inaction inertia
I have no clue what you’re quoting from but okay, I can get on board.
But again you can’t take any criticism and characterize it as “delusional wokescolds” or hysterical screaming. What most of us have dealt with are self-described leftists and leftist orgs having a pretty good position on Covid and Covid precautions through 2020 and then deciding to take up the cdc line that Covid is over and masks are unnecessary sometime after vaccinations become widespread. This situation has only become worse. Are we not allowed to vent on a Reddit post? Are we not allowed to criticize those who at one time stood with us but showed themselves to be unreliable once things became difficult?
I was quoting myself in response to your claim I was advocating inaction
I've masked for almost six years straight and have caught covid four times, if you want to vent go ahead, but I'm done with useless reddit threads, I refuse to be demoralized by bullshit like that, there are solutions to these problems and at this late date I care only about results and wins
yeah so I don’t really understand your position. You say you don’t advocate inaction yet above you say the left can’t organize around health-friendly lines? Which to me implies inaction on the Covid issue - why I accused you of advocating inaction.
But in any case I think that’s a bad attitude towards criticism. Venting is not in opposition to action, nor is feeling demoralized. If you’re sick of it that’s one thing, but people just trying to commiserate about a bad situation should be supported if anything, not torn down and accused of being delusional and useless
Of course you don't understand my position, you completely misread my point
I said the left does not have the power to organize SOCIETY along health-friendly lines, are socialists in charge of the CDC?
Who the hell is arguing the left’s failure has been not reorganizing society? Granted I hardly went through the full thread, but nearly all the comments I read were broadly in line with complaints I hear and make among the left that still masks - that many leftists and left wing orgs have essentially abandoned the Covid issue. Even the initial comment you quoted and criticized makes this criticism - the failure of left wing leaders is not their failure to reorganize society but their failure to hold to what should be left wing principles, instead following the cdc into Covid denialism
yes but people in orgs have the power to organise in a safe way. is that not true?
Opinion disregarded
If this was 2019, I'd be devastated