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[-] TheRtRevKaiser@beehaw.org 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Locking this thread to clean up the mess. Come on, ya'll, we can do better than this.

Edit: I've unlocked the comments in here. We've removed some comments in this thread for being inflammatory or for not adhering to Beehaw's one (and only) sitewide rule: Be(e) Nice.

To elaborate a bit on what that means in !politics:

Be(e) Nice doesn't mean you have to always be positive or happy. It doesn't mean you always have to agree. It does, however, that at all times we have to remember the human on the other side of the screen. We can disagree and still be kind to each other and try to assume that others are operating in good faith. I get it - politics are messy and complicated and the issues are big and for many existential. But we can talk to each other and disagree with one another without resorting to personal attacks or escalating the discussion into an all out flame war.

And to reiterate - that doesn't mean that we will tolerate hate speech, JAQing off, sealioning, or other ways of engaging in bad faith. If you see these things, please report them to the mods.

[-] reverendsteveii@beehaw.org 22 points 1 year ago

we pick from the menu for dinner tonight, and for future meals we fight to have more of a say in what's on the menu. there's too many people calling for my head right now for me to protest vote or sit out because the guy who doesn't want to kill me is problematic about some niche policy position. remember that a lot of trump's money in 2016 went toward campaigning for democrats to stay home, with reasons alternating between "clinton is an awful candidate" (she was) and "she's got this in the bag so your vote doesn't matter".

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[-] kbbeen@beehaw.org 12 points 1 year ago

Wow, a lot of vitriol on this topic! Okay, so, for my first post on Lemmy I am going to make a positive leftist case for Biden.

Biden is not the problem! He wants to do big things; he wants be a great president. If congress sent him voting rights, reproductive rights, major climate action, and many other leftist priorities, he would sign them. He could definitely be better, but he is mostly not standing in our way. How many decades would you have to go back to find another president you could say that about?

Biden is not the problem. Congress is the problem. State and local governments are the problem. Nimbys are the problem. We have a lot of problems to solve but the presidency is not one of them. What we need to do with the presidency is simply reelect Biden and then get on with the work of solving the actual problems.

[-] thekbob@beehaw.org 5 points 1 year ago

Biden is still a centrist, also known as a fascist enabler.

The man is not for labor, see ending the railroad strike, one of the most infuriating moves a so-called great president could perform.

If he truly wanted to do great things, and not be hindered by the backing of capital, he'd be moving fast and breaking things more than the previous administration. He's not.

[-] macallik@kbin.social 11 points 1 year ago

I understand your frustration but also encourage you to pay more attention to what happens behind the scenes. Your position on the railroad strike is outdated/misinformed relative to what happened a month ago:

When Joe Biden and Congress enacted legislation in December that blocked a threatened freight rail strike, many workers angrily faulted Biden for not ensuring that the legislation also guaranteed paid sick days. But since then, union officials says, members of the Biden administration, including the transportation secretary, Pete Buttigieg, and labor secretary, Marty Walsh, who stepped down on 11 March, lobbied the railroads, telling them it was wrong not to grant paid sick days.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/may/01/railroad-workers-union-win-sick-leave

In other words, Biden instructed his administration to double back and force the hand of the railroad companies to get the union exactly what they wanted.

[-] ondoyant@beehaw.org 9 points 1 year ago

IBEW statement. this is one of the unions involved, and their official statement on the matter. pretty positive.

[-] kbbeen@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I think you're wanting him to be more like LBJ, using his political power to drag reluctant congress members along, and you're right, someone like that would have gotten more done. But LBJ wasn't perfect either, and the LBJ approach isn't the only way to get things done. Another way is more bottom up, get the support in congress and then just have a president who's willing to go along. I'm guessing that's probably AOC's intention, to bring liberals and leftists together so we can present a unified front and get majorities in congress.

But yeah, I agree about the railroad strike. Also the vaccine patents. He's not perfect.

[-] slartibartfast42@beehaw.org 4 points 1 year ago

I don't think Biden wants to do big things.

[-] davehtaylor@beehaw.org 3 points 1 year ago

Yep. He is absolutely invested in the status quo. Which is why the DNC sabotaged the 2020 primary to make sure he'd win.

[-] Harpuajim@lemmy.fmhy.ml 2 points 1 year ago

Biden won the most states, nothing was sabotaged.

[-] davehtaylor@beehaw.org 3 points 1 year ago

Going into super Tuesday, it was clear that Bernie had the lead. Most of the other candidates absolutely tanked, and afterward dropped out and all of them endorsed Biden. Then fucking Bloomberg joins the race out of nowhere, spends a bunch of money, muddies the waters, then drops out after hardly any time and endorses Biden. And when the DNC super delegates decided they'd go for Biden no matter what, it was clear what was going to happen.

Tell me with a straight face that people at the DNC didn't contact the other candidates and make it clear that they wouldn't have a future in the Democratic party unless they dropped and endorsed Biden.

The DNC did not want anyone but Biden to win the nomination, and they made sure it happened. https://www.politico.com/news/2020/01/31/dnc-superdelegates-110083

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[-] sin_free_for_00_days@lemmy.one 1 points 1 year ago

I think it's a bunch of kids with little life experience. On one hand their passion recalls fading memories of my own young, idealistic self in my 20s. On the other hand, politics doesn't work with raging hardliners. On the third hand, the world is pretty fucked, the US is going to hell in a handbasket and I don't think geriatrics are who we should be voting for. You say Congress is the problem, but really, it's voters. Voters just fucking suck. But unless someone wants to do away with any type of democracy, shitty voters is where we are at.

[-] reverendsteveii@beehaw.org 4 points 1 year ago

raging hardliners

you're not wrong, politics is about compromise and in the most successful nations no one gets what they want and no one leaves the bargaining table happy. the question is, how does one work the politics of coalition and compromise when the people you're supposed to coalition-build and compromise with are raging hardliners. How does one find a middle ground with open christian nationalist fascists?

[-] davehtaylor@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago

How does one find a middle ground with open christian nationalist fascists?

You don't. You must never. Because there is no middle ground.

The fact that Dems keep trying to "reach across the aisle" is one of the worst parts of what's going on right now. They have no spine to stand up for what's right.

[-] HisNoodlyServant@beehaw.org 12 points 1 year ago

Biden is trying to get some progressive stuff done. For the most part pretty happy with his agenda. Still be nice to have someone running that isn't old as fuck.

[-] Uniquitous@lemmy.one 9 points 1 year ago

Ugh. I'm not real happy about having to vote to uphold the gerontocracy, but as both likely frontrunners are a part thereof, all I can do is vote to minimize the harm.

[-] PostmodernPythia@beehaw.org 3 points 1 year ago

That’s only true if you live in a swing state. If your state’s certain to go one way or the other, vote your conscience, even if it’s a write-in.

[-] JaeSuis@beehaw.org 6 points 1 year ago

I live in Texas (a state that will go a certain way) and I will vote Dem. It makes no sense to me to help make a bigger gap between the Republicans and everybody else just because the Dems suck too.

The "principled stance" a protest vote makes only helps embolden the current political hellscape within my own state. If I can chip away at the Republican power structure, I will do it.

[-] Krakatoa@lemmy.film 4 points 1 year ago

I would argue the opposite. An increasing minority vote/poll in a "safe" state would pull resources away from swing states to keep the state "safe". Not many people would have imagined Georgia going blue in federal elections but here we are.

[-] PostmodernPythia@beehaw.org 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

If things are bad enough that NY goes red, how I voted is the least of our problems.

I mean actually red or blue states. Georgia’s dynamics have been moving centerward for years, and people who pay attention to that stuff knew that.

[-] Krakatoa@lemmy.film 2 points 1 year ago

And how do you think Georgia started going blue? It doesn't happen overnight.

[-] Peeko@beehaw.org 5 points 1 year ago

Really wish we didn't need to wait for politicians to die of old age before we could replace them...

[-] liminis@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago

I imagine in this case there's a little more to it, namely that incumbent presidents overwhelmingly win a second term. The last time a sitting President failed to do so prior to Trump was all the way bac in 1993.

I don't like Biden, hell, I don't like electoral politics; but it's probably wise in a party-political sense.

[-] slartibartfast42@beehaw.org 3 points 1 year ago

Not a big fan of this, but I can't really blame her when the only other options are "unserious protest candidate who's a bit of a crank" and "unserious protest candidate who's completely nuts and possibly a crypto-Republican".

[-] sin_free_for_00_days@lemmy.one 2 points 1 year ago

It would be nice to have a strong challenger, but the DNC protects its elders. I can't imagine any Dem not endorsing Biden as it's the only choice, and not endorsing him is a strange waste of political capital.

[-] jabib@beehaw.org 3 points 1 year ago

It amazes me how much and how quick people are to blame Biden or AOC when the political landscape isn't this richly progressive utopia in a rank choice voting system. We have real problems in this country and the ONLY way we get closer to solving them is by not electing fascists

[-] Didros@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago

The ONLY way we get closer to solving them was by educating our populace about the dangers of authoritarianism in the wake of the world wars. And coming to terms as a nation how much the Nazi regime learned from America and our concentration camps that we don't teach nearly enough about.

But that ship kind of sailed and we now live in a country where some obscenely high percent of Americans don't even believe the holocaust happened at all.

In my opinion we are way past the solution being democrats, they hardly even stop the bleeding anymore. They are just there to show the masses that there are two parties and they didn't really want to pass all of this pro business, anti people legislation, but we had to because of the debt ceiling that we didn't even stop for long and the Republicans can beat us with it again in a few years.

The system is designed to be fucked.

[-] ondoyant@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago

we can whine about how we didn't do the right thing before now all we want, but we live in the world of today, and the solution, or at least part of it, must be to keep the actual fascists from doing actual fascism. we have to do more, electoral politics isn't gonna save us, but genuinely it makes me really mad when people get all doomer about this shit. most people used to be serfs. a hundred years ago children were working in coal mines. progress can be made. progress against capitalists can be made. and if voting didn't matter businesses wouldn't be pouring money into politics, republicans wouldn't be trying their best to stop people from turning up.

[-] Didros@beehaw.org 1 points 1 year ago

While I agree that "being all doomer" isn't exactly helpful, I want to point out that voting democrats in hasn't been exactly helpful either. Child labor has been happening in America this ENTIRE time, it has just only been legal in the agricultural space. But I had a job before it was legal using a family members social security number, and we were almost middle class.

There are a LOT of problems with our current system. I just feel like continuing to elect the only two parties that got us here is a bad plan.

[-] alyaza@beehaw.org 3 points 1 year ago

I want to point out that voting democrats in hasn’t been exactly helpful either. [...] There are a LOT of problems with our current system. I just feel like continuing to elect the only two parties that got us here is a bad plan.

as always, if you want this to be different in a way that isn't going to throw everything to the hardest right politicians (who incidentally are making a full-court press to make child labor legal again) you'll need to start with voting reform. i would encourage you to formally get involved with an organization like Fairvote to this end.

[-] Didros@beehaw.org 1 points 1 year ago

While I do agree that my doomer additude isn't helpful, I don't think anything can change. And I also don't want to sacrifice my life to the cause. People who go against this system end up dead if they are lucky. I'm fine to just complain online.

I think a third political party that simply ran on always voting no to anything other than clean budgets and debt ceiling hikes would 100% win in the minds of the people. But it wouldn't take much for tge system to distort and twist even that incredibly basic platform.

I don't believe a third party will ever be allowed to become viable in this country. I hate it, but that won't change it because there is too much "capital" in this for human lives to outweigh it. That is our countries values. Who am I to say that isn't what the majority want?

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this post was submitted on 08 Jul 2023
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