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So the purpose of this web portal is to show parents a transcript of their child's conversations with their toys. Even if you ignore all security implications of storing this data, isn't this a break of trust by itself? Don't kids deserve a minimum of privacy?
Depends on who you ask. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
My wife had her door taken off the hinges when she was growing up. Around pre-teen to teen. Yeah her mom doesn't believe in her kids keeping anything private from her....or didn't. Idk she's old and barely mobile now.
Hey, me too! With the door removed!
It was put back on when one of my mothers friends commented how creepy it was anyone could see into the teenaged girls bedroom cause my room was on the main hallway through the house
This was my fault she was creeped out, naturally, but the door was back at least.
Right, but that's batshit insane, so...
The doors in my house didn't close when I was a kid either (there was stuff in front of them). It didn't feel weird at the time but I still have trouble seeing any space as mine. But this feels very light in comparison because it's not hidden that your parents can hear you.
For a certain type of parent, no. They see immorality and demons behind every planter and think every other person in the world is out to snatch their kid. I definitely had classmates in my school days who were not afforded any privacy at all - diaries couldn't be locked, journals were read through, any electronic records got read and gone over, etc.
Unsurprisingly, a large number of these people have grown up to be intensely private in their personal lives, and it's incredibly difficult to pick the mask apart from the person even if you're incredibly close. They won't share any thought because their own thoughts were the only privacy they could have.
Even the cultural milieu of that combined with having a reason to hide gave me damage because I was on edge that my privacy might be being invaded without my knowledge
I feel this can be even worse when it's not obvious the parents are going through their stuff. Kids will know they're being watched but not necessarily how. This can really fuck with your head.
Yeah it's deeply wrong on a technical, legal and ethical level. It violates a handful of doctrines in all of these disciplines.
In America you get canceled for even implying that
...what?
In my experience, absolutely not. And it's not about sheltering kids. It's about teachable moments. My spouse and I review the conversations my kids are having with their friends a couple times a month (and they know this) and I know a few other parents are doing the same. There's so much harassment and bullying that IMO you are being a negligent parent if you don't review and step in. We don't need social interactions to be unhealthy and feign ignorance when they grow up to be a shitty person.
Kids are kids. They aren't fully developed, they are impulsive, and groups of kids are just exponentially dumber. IMO empathy should not be treated as a natural skill. It can be taught and that often requires lessons, teachable moments, and correcting course through interventions. I'd say the toughest is the group texts with their friends.
My 11 year old was having super obnoxious "meme conversations" a couple weeks ago, often with unintended sexual inuendos. I can't imagine that someone else is going to tell me I'm violating her privacy by being proactive. We discussed the memes and how they should conduct themselves in conversations. Another time, we saw her agreeing with a bullying conversation from another kid. We're going to step in because that's not a healthy conversation.
It won't be like this forever. They will have their privacy at some point, but they need to demonstrate their maturity much clearer before that can happen.
And no way in hell am I giving my kids an Internet connected chat bot stuffed toy.
Yikes...
Just an fyi, your kid is going to despise you.
lmao. Sure buddy. My kids are fantastic and they are becoming amazing people. Good luck with your life.
This is the cringiest thing I've read this week.
You know, you COULD just teach your kids to trust you, and give them reasons to trust you, so that they'll come to you when they need advice...
I think you're missing the major thesis of my comment. This is not at all about trust. For example, they literally do not understand when they are behaving like a bully. It requires educating them. They don't understand when they are being rude sometimes. They don't understand many aspects of culture, why would they? I'm not going to let middle school group dynamics shape my kids moral compass. Empathy needs to be taught, sometimes very explicitly.
I'm sure they will come to us for advice and help, and I also know they won't come going to us for everything, which is fine. But I'm not going to half ass raising my kids. That goes for dozens of topics.
So you do not trust your local school or its educators to observe and step in on things as utterly common as bullying?
Hellicopter parent is still a fucking complement compared to your behavior...
Relying on the school to teach your kids basic social skills seems shitty to me.
This convo isn't about "basic social skills". The context is literally bullying.
An 11 year old having SEX THOUGHTS? Speaking in MEMES!?
WHAT HAS THIS WORLD COME TO
Middle schoolers don't need to be sexting classmates. Are you a moron every day or just today?
Sending suggestive memes unintentionally suggestive is not sexting.
I guess every day but nowhere near as much as you.
That's somewhat my point. They were not having those thoughts, but using memes in a way that it could be construed.
edit: Specifically, they were using a bunch of mayonnaise memes from movie scenes that they haven't seen, but in the movie context it's intended to be cum.
If they didn't know is there any real harm? Maybe later on they'll learn and have a cringy memory to come back to.
Downvotes on my previous comment are suspicious. We're on one of the most privacy minded communities there is and they're supporting actively going through the personal messages of an 11 year old kid.
My parents would not have liked what conversations I had at 11, but knowing that I could express myself without someone hawking through my every thought.
If I was in your kid's situation, I would never share anything with you. Having the thought police actively hanging over my every conversation would be a nightmare.
Well my kid was texting other middle age kids from her school. There's already been cases of kids screenshotting conversations that are just "between friends" to share with others. I also have no idea what those kids are aware of -- maybe they have seen these movies and understand the memes better than she does.
Yeah, there is a shit load of potential harm. Are you not aware of cyber bullying? Are you not aware of how mean kids can be? You think kids fully understand gaslighting, manipulation, and scams? Most adults don't understand this, and this privacy forum thinks I should just let the events unfold randomly for my kids? I am not being a helicopter parent simply by monitoring and educating my kids. I understand the stereotype. I discuss science, philosophy, politics, finances, privacy, anonymity, permanence of digital communications, atheism, world tragedies, case studies in exploitation/scams, and dozens of other topics with my kids.
My spouse and I are both sex positive, so it's not that it's something we "dislike" our kids discovering. Frankly, we are excellent parents because it's something we value, discuss, and try to be intentional about. But thinking they will just intuitively navigate digital communication is very naive. We have an excellent relationship and I'll do my best to keep making it stronger. I hope they will feel comfortable coming to me for any topic, including sex. I'll basically be setting them up with a much better understanding of the values of privacy than 99% of parents.
But kids are dumb. You can't just lecture at them. They are learning, but they are dumb, and will make mistakes as they learn. Why would I not be involved in that?
I appreciate the conversation. I fully expected a lot of downvotes on an anonymous privacy sub about kids not having privacy. It doesn't bother me. Someone asked an interesting question about the intersection of kids and privacy, and it's a topic I am passionate about. So yeah, I am happy to defend my choices as a parent if there's more questions even if it goes against the norms of the community.
Frankly, we are excellent parents
i have never known a competent parent to say this
Well we are out there. Cheers
And now you're outing your child's private conversations to the general public?
What the hell is wrong with you?
Last I checked this is an anonymous platform. I also generally rotate accounts when it feels relevant. You have a problem speaking about generalities in a public platform? The more specific example seemed necessary to clarify the discussion.
Being generous, what you described doesn't seem unreasonable on its own. My criticism is based on the context of this discussion: using stuffed animals to record children.
You responded to a query about whether using stuffed animals to record children violated children's privacy with "In my experience, absolutely not."
Re-reading your points, you seem to be talking about supervising text conversations between kids. That's a completely separate issue. It can be reasonable to read their conversations, if you have raised this possibility with them, and discussed the purpose of doing so.
But this thread is about IoT Teddy Bears, not text messages. Charitably, I have to assume you are simply off topic, and my only real criticism is that discussing the contents of those messages with anyone but them violates their privacy.
If and when a kid comes across this discussion, I want to make sure they are aware of just how egregious a violation it is to have hidden recording devices in their personal space. In most jurisdictions, recording without the knowledge and consent of at least one party to the conversation is considered "wiretapping" or "eavesdropping", and is not just a violation of their privacy; it is a criminal act. If anyone - including your parents - has listening or other recording devices installed in your personal space, you should tell teachers, guidance counselors, principals, and similar trusted adults.
I guess I didn't explicitly say this in my original comment, but my intended point is that kids do not have a right to privacy. I explained from a personal POV why I as a parent make this choice, but since you're interested in the legal side: kids cannot provide or revoke consent because they do not even have this right. Legal guardians have this right on behalf of their kids. This is true pretty much universally across governments. If you have a specific example I am happy to change my mind. Particularly for ages 3 to 9, which is what this toy is targets to (which I would never buy heh).
The government provides many legal safety protections for kids (so we can skip the arguments related to invasive privacy that is violating some other protections), but by and far most countries and US states do NOT provide kids a self-managed right to privacy. Parents/legal guardians control the consent of their kids. So you're simply wrong.
With that said, kids should absolutely bring up home problems and concerns with other trusted adults. If privacy is being violating another legal safety protection for kids, then they should absolutely bring it up. If the kids don't like that the parents are violating their privacy (even if it's legal), they should bring it up. I personally would never hide any monitoring I have on my kids, and wouldn't recommend that approach to any parent.
There could be a legal issue for violating a second party in a two-party consent state, or third-party monitoring. But it's almost universally true again that single party monitoring is allowed for minors. And I'd be happy if you brought any specific claims if you disagree.
OH NO, CUM? EWWWWWWW
Kids are having conversations with their STUFFED ANIMALS?
And the companies are RECORDING IT? What in the Black Mirror fuck.
To be fair, on paper, a Teddybear that will respond to you is pretty awesome and magical. But yeah.
And the parents thought it was ok to buy a toy like this for their child.
Well, the same parents that wanted to read a transcript of what their kids say to their stuffed animals.
Kids are having conversations with their STUFFED ANIMALS?
And the companies are RECORDING IT? What in the Black Mirror fuck.
pre black mirror unfortunately
I mean... I had conversations with my stuffed animals as a kid. But only one had electronics in it, and they just made Teddy Ruxpin say some pre-recorded things.
The recording part is fucked up, tho.
