this post was submitted on 19 Jan 2026
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Fuck Cars

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[–] damnthefilibuster@lemmy.world 54 points 4 weeks ago (11 children)

What’s going on in that one area in Montana?

[–] teuniac_@lemmy.world 53 points 4 weeks ago

I'm wondering that too. Just a guess, low population density with lots of farmers 'working from home' since they live on their farm.

[–] hildegarde@lemmy.blahaj.zone 27 points 4 weeks ago (3 children)

Those two counties are Petroleum County, with a population of about 500, and Garfield County with a population of about 1,100. Both counties have a single town with about a quarter of the population.

This means a majority of the population live in the country, and likely work the lands they live on. This means no commute to work, which is what was measured.

This is a flaw in the methodology. Rurual Montana is not a bastion of urban planning. It is a mistake to look at travel to work exclusively. People need to travel to many destinations. And those living in those two counties probably use cars for everything else.

[–] EddoWagt@feddit.nl 6 points 4 weeks ago

What the hell, Garfield county is about the quarter size of my country (the Netherlands, but only has 0,007% of the population. That's mind boggling to me

[–] blarghly@lemmy.world 5 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

I wouldnt say it is a flaw, really. The data in general is a good approximation of auto dependence. And any researcher who isn't an idiot will see the same thing you did and simply discard the data in these counties as obvious outliers. Sure, we can imagine a more accurate metric for measuring auto dependency for the purposes of creating a very nice map for public consumption. But it your purpose is simply to conduct some statistical analysis, I don't think this dataset is bad - or at least not a bad start.

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[–] Rooster326@programming.dev 26 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (6 children)

They don''t go to work. Farmers don't travel for work but it's likely low survey response. Very low population density there(1-10/mi)

You aren't getting anywhere in Montana without a car

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[–] CompactFlax@discuss.tchncs.de 11 points 4 weeks ago

Horses, atvs.

[–] Phil_in_here@lemmy.ca 5 points 4 weeks ago

Also, note the scale. It starts at 50% reliance.

[–] IndridCold@lemmy.ca 5 points 4 weeks ago

What’s going on in that one area in Montana?

Nothing.

I drove though there once. Hours of seeing nothing but road.

[–] panda_abyss@lemmy.ca 4 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

low population density means high variance in stats. 

always expect the highest and lowest stars to come from those areas. 

But it’s probably farmers who live on their farm or something. 

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[–] Toto@lemmy.world 26 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

Swear to god, every heat map of the US highlights how much of a shit hole the Mississippi delta must be.

[–] Rooster326@programming.dev 24 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (6 children)

What is supposed to be surprising about this?

Everywhere I have lived, and everyone I have ever met had to take a car.

There are like maybe 15 places in the US with a functioning public transportation system.

Jobs are downtown but nobody make enough money to live downtown. Last time I tried it would have been > 75% my wages in rent only just to live in shit hole.

[–] ChicoSuave@lemmy.world 8 points 4 weeks ago

The map actually does a good job of highlighting how population dense places exist without a lot of cars per person. New York and San Francisco are both shown and have green or yellow patches. Mass transit works so damn good but, like election maps, the actual region highlighted is empty space with a few people all doing the same things.

[–] grue@lemmy.world 6 points 4 weeks ago (4 children)

The real alternative to cars isn't public transit; it's walking and biking (with zoning density that facilitates that). Public transit is a 'nice to have' layer built on top afterward.

[–] mech@feddit.org 11 points 4 weeks ago (3 children)

You're not going to live your life within biking distance.
And I say that as someone who's lived their entire life without owning a car, in one of the most densely-populated areas of Germany.
Public transit is an absolutely essential part of life, not a "nice to have".
Even in the most walkable of all cities, you're going to want to get to a lake for swimming, meet friends who live two towns over, transit to the airport, or simply have a reliable option to commute during a thunderstorm or when it's freezing.

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[–] MrMakabar@slrpnk.net 6 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Not everybody lives in the US and in a lot of countries being able to go to work without a car is normal.

[–] Soulg@ani.social 13 points 4 weeks ago

This is a map of the us

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[–] kittenzrulz123@lemmy.dbzer0.com 15 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Four out of the top nine counties are in NYC. Once again a common W for Manhattan, Queens, Brooklyn, and the Bronx (not you Staten Island, you suck)

[–] Gorilladrums@lemmy.world 5 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (2 children)

Staten Island doesn't have the subway infrastructure that other boroughs have. The one line it does have does has relatively high usage. Maybe it's wise to expand it?

[–] RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 3 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

Staten’s a bunch of republicans. They aren’t gonna pay for anything that lets the rabble in.

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[–] kittenzrulz123@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 4 weeks ago (5 children)

Im not saying Staten Island cant be good, there simply isn't the political will to improve anything. If their government and people got the heads out of the sand they would notice that there is demand for more rail infrastructure. Kinda like how there's significant amounts of unmet rail demand in Queens and Brooklyn (hopefully the IBX helps the issue)

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[–] SupahRevs@lemmy.world 12 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Are there maps like this for other part of the world? I'd imagine Europe has a much lower rate of car commuting.

[–] Obi@sopuli.xyz 12 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

In comparison to the US yeah probably but still overall pretty high would be my assumption.

[–] bstix@feddit.dk 6 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)
[–] some_kind_of_guy@lemmy.world 3 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

That is an abomination of data vis, good god

[–] bstix@feddit.dk 5 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Yes it takes some time to decode, but it has lots of info.

It would be nice to somehow compare distances, time and population density as well.

Americans drive a lot, but they don't actually drive very far for work, whereas in Europe it's rather common to work in a different city than where you live. Asia has the highest population density and this benefits them both in finding local work and building public transport.

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[–] pipi1234@lemmy.world 10 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Haha, greatest country in the world my arse!

[–] samus12345@sh.itjust.works 3 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

There are a lot of reason why we're not, but excessive car use is one of the lesser reasons!

[–] Sauerkraut@discuss.tchncs.de 7 points 3 weeks ago

I can see how car dependency feels like a lesser issue, but car dependency destroys communities and even our shared humanity to some extent which in turn gives way to much larger problems

[–] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 9 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Yeah, this is one of the reasons why I only want to live in the NYC area of the US. Just take the train or bus, don't worry about it.

[–] gustofwind@lemmy.world 9 points 4 weeks ago

America is essentially a third world country with just a handful of developed metropolitan areas

And those few developed areas havnt meaningfully evolved or improved in decades and especially compared to the infrastructure developments seen in asia or Europe

[–] arrow74@lemmy.zip 7 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

I've lived in some of the counties in the south under 100% reliance and let me assure you outside of the major cities many are only under 100% due to crippling poverty. I can't tell you how many people I've know in my life thay have had to talk 2 hrs one way to a shitty low paying job at a gas station or dollar general.

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[–] SaharaMaleikuhm@feddit.org 6 points 4 weeks ago

A living nightmare

[–] Siegfried@lemmy.world 4 points 4 weeks ago

Virodis always brings peace to the soul

[–] 87Six@lemmy.zip 4 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

I think that's inflated. Many will say they depend on it without even having tried the local public transport, if available.

It's greatly inflated by virtue of doing it by county instead, mingling major transit routes with fully rural areas.

But even that aside I strongly agree. Cook county would be under 50 if people were more willing to take the train

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[–] abbadon420@sh.itjust.works 4 points 4 weeks ago

I knew it was bad,but this really shows some perspective. Holy shit dudes.

[–] artifex@piefed.social 4 points 4 weeks ago

Does anyone know of similar maps for European or Asian countries? The only thing I’ve found so far it this report, but it doesn’t go into county-level detail.

[–] victorz@lemmy.world 4 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

I feel like the only interesting bits are the yellow places that aren't big cities (with their subways or whatever), and that aren't places separated by water, where it makes sense that they travel across by ferry e.g. The few places where you'd expect cars to be the vast majority, but isn't. Those seem interesting to look closer into.

[–] Mouselemming@sh.itjust.works 3 points 4 weeks ago (3 children)

They're farmer. They live on the farm, and ride a tractor to work.

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[–] GraniteM@lemmy.world 4 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Conclusion: the Gulf Coast makes Americans crave cars.

[–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 6 points 4 weeks ago

The lack of sufficient population density to support public transit makes Americans crave cars. Population density is low because the US has the space, and the areas that are dense are stupidly expensive.

I'd love to take a bus or light rail to work, but instead I end up having a saily commuteof over 100 miles round trip. In the city where I work, a 600sft studio apartment would cost an extra 30 grand a year versus my 3 bed, 2 bath place 50-ish miles away.

[–] ideonek@piefed.social 3 points 4 weeks ago

This is bonkers.

[–] EndlessNightmare@reddthat.com 3 points 3 weeks ago

Cars: a symbol of ~~freedom~~ dependency

I am very resentful that we went such a ridiculous, wasteful direction.

[–] Kolanaki@pawb.social 2 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (2 children)

What's that one tiny little yellow square in California? SF?

If it's SF I gotta know why there are so many cars there then. So many cars, not enough parking. It's common to see people double, or even triple parked. But it is also the most walkable city I've experienced next to New York. Though, going up hill fucking suuuuucks!

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