Memes of Production

Capitalism and communism both need to same resources, they’re just distributed different.

I'm really not convinced by this. I'm not going to try and make an argument for communism. But the idea the amount of consumption under capitalism would be the same as under alternative economic systems is just absurd. The amount of waste created by planned obsolescence, fashion (fast and otherwise), consumption from status anxiety, the things people buy to cope with long working weeks and commutes. In addition to this the extra damage caused by the billionaires and mega rich.

We would still need access to the same types of resources under alternative economic systems. But there is so much waste created by things which are exclusive to capitalism.

So the people unwilling to let go of glutinous life styles is the real issue? Person living in the woods with a simple lifestyle ok but Taylor and her plane no good?

As a vegetarian I feel like this is purity testing. It's easy for me to not eat meat but some of them seem really weirdly attached to it.

Unilateral sacrifices are fine when it's easy, but a lot has to change and it can exhaust you. If they've only got the mental energy for one, then I'll accept their help with systemic change. Even a slightly better economy would internalize the cost of eating meat.

We probably will, eventually

My old boss told me one time (I’m translating from corporate speak) that it’s 100% totally okay to personally inflict any amount of environmental damage that benefits us in the short term, because the solutions to climate change are on the way. Like it’s a totally forgone conclusion that the bright minds working on these problems will solve them. Always have, always will.

You and I and every sane person agrees minimizing the damage is best either way. It just reminded me of that convo lol. Bro was using the “confidence in human ingenuity” as a blank check excuse to actively cause the damage that will need to be undone. Absolutely insufferable. If it were 100% confirmed there were no way for us to survive what’s coming he’d still run the business the same way just with a different convenient excuse

Was going to mention the Aral Sea

I think that going "future solutions will fix this problem, don't think about it now" like you are is a huge part of the problem.

Don't think big picture, do actions, now.

Education and quality of life improvements lower birth-rates. We have enough resources and the logistical means to ensure all peoples have access to high quality of life. We choose to deny this based on a capitalist profit seeking model, where we over allocate resources to the most wealthy and strip them from the least.

Think about how much shit is wasted on the daily, and then think about if we just didn't do that. Tons of shit nobody wants is manufactured and destined for landfills for no reason other than to make a few billionaires some pocket change. Now think about all the plastic fucking packaging.

We could be doing shit in a sustainable manner. But no, capitalism.

Some exploitation is necessary, in the same way a bison exploits the grass.

But different economic systems can generate vastly different levels of environmental destruction. For example, our system encourages planned obsolescence, fast fashion, and overall disposable goods. There are countless materials we don't recycle simply because it's not profitable to do so. You can build a system on a more circular economy, where new raw materials are only harvested if recycling can't provide.

It's the deliberate choice to use processes over more sustainable options, like using gas and coal instead of cleaner solutions like nuclear. Other examples would be outsourcing processes that we could do cleanly to the 3rd world because it's cheaper.