Request to create a 2nd paid only version of the app (lemmy.world)

submitted 11 months ago by dialecticcake@lemmy.world to c/syncforlemmy@lemmy.world

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I don't like the lack of transparency with how the Google Play Store doesn't list the permissions if one pays for the app and instead only shows the permissions if one doesn't pay.

I generally prefer it when devs release two apps -- a free version and a paid version. This way it's very clear on the Google Play Store what is being tracked in the paid app.

This won't affect me personally, but I am curious if others would be more likely to use and pay for Sync if the permissions were more clear for the paid usage case.

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[-] youthinkyouknowme@lemmy.dbzer0.com 21 points 11 months ago

https://lemmy.world/comment/2009322

[-] rooster_butt@lemm.ee 8 points 11 months ago

"The site can't be reached"

https://lemm.ee/comment/1800250

alternative link to same comment. I really wish there was a better way to link to comments that's instance agnostic...

[-] youthinkyouknowme@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 11 months ago

Thanks. Didn't realize it didn't work

[-] kratoz29@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago

I really wish there was a better way to link to comments that's instance agnostic...

Huh for real, for instance his did work for me, yours did not on Sync 😅

[-] techwizrd@programming.dev 4 points 11 months ago

Both worked for me on Sync. 🤔

[-] MothBookkeeper@lemmy.world 11 points 11 months ago

I'd settle for more transparency from the dev about what happens with your data when you pay. Is it still collected?

[-] SmoothIsFast@citizensgaming.com 28 points 11 months ago

LJ has stated nothing is collected once you pay as the ad library is no longer initialized. Other users were able to confirm that no more tracking requests were made after ad free/ultra were purchased.

[-] charles@lemmy.ca 3 points 11 months ago

My question at this point is more what happens when the Google services have issues like it would with Sync for Reddit. When that used to happen, IAP pro users lost their benefits until it was rectified whereas Sync Pro would keep working perfectly.

I'd pay for Ultra monthly regardless since I use the app daily and I'm more than happy to give ~3/mo for continuous development but I don't like that I have no way of preventing data collection/tracking when IAP have issues.

[-] Stovetop@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago

From what I gathered based on conversations in the discord, the developer fixed the issue that was causing that behavior. It hadn't been an issue for a while by the time Reddit killed it.

[-] charles@lemmy.ca 1 points 11 months ago

That's good to know, I never kept up with the issue since I wasn't impacted when it would occur. I just remember seeing it come up every now and then.

Appreciate the update! I don't really use discord these days so it's easy for me to miss that kind of stuff.

[-] dialecticcake@lemmy.world -3 points 11 months ago

Sure and if the dev goes back on that we have no recourse to get a refund from Google or for Google to take any action towards the dev since the dev can just show we agreed to our data being collected/used regardless of whether we paid or not.

[-] bluejay@lemmy.dbzer0.com 22 points 11 months ago

I tested this yesterday. There were zero hits in TrackerControl with ads removed.

[-] dialecticcake@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago

Cool. It's great that you did this.

However, my concern is there are no guarantees it wouldn't change and there would be no recourse for Google to give us a refund since from Google's standpoint we gave permission for the app to track our data regardless of whether we paid or not.

[-] bluejay@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 11 months ago

That's fair. It definitely comes down to your own trust, but for me I've been using Sync for Reddit for roughly a decade and I've never seen anything sketchy from ljdawson.

I also don't rely on just their word, I block this stuff on my own network anyway.

As for a refund, the 1-time payment to remove ads isn't expensive (to me anyway) and depending on how much time you spend on the app it may have already been worth it.

But again it's all your preference anyway. Nothing wrong with using a different app.

[-] dialecticcake@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago

I appreciate your response and I agree. And likewise nothing wrong with the dev making money and fans supporting that too. (I've seen complaints of some people who think all Lemmy apps should be free...and I feel that's very entitled demanding someone else's time and effort for free, but they too can just use free apps.)

[-] altima_neo@lemmy.zip 9 points 11 months ago

I saw a post somewhere saying he personally doesnt track anything. Im guessing all the tracking is likely being done by whomever his ad provider is.

[-] sabreW4K3@lemmy.tf 16 points 11 months ago

Google. It's the same privacy policy that was in Sync for Reddit and is in the Play Store

[-] dialecticcake@lemmy.world -1 points 11 months ago

Just because it was done like this before does not mean it's a good or transparent practice. I can appreciate though that those who used and loved Sync for Reddit may not care.

I have not used Sync for Reddit however but upon hearing about how much people love it, I wanted to give this app a try. My main point is it's not transparent unless their is a separate app for the paid version that lays out the permissions.

[-] sabreW4K3@lemmy.tf 6 points 11 months ago

Yeah, but Google banned Laurence for that. So maybe you need to start a case in a court of law against Google for abusing their monopoly.

[-] dialecticcake@lemmy.world -4 points 11 months ago

Can you or Laurence link me to the policy saying one can't have both a paid and unpaid app? Or are you asserting Google didn't follow their own policy in this regard?

[-] sabreW4K3@lemmy.tf 3 points 11 months ago

He got banned for it last year.

[-] eco@lemm.ee 2 points 11 months ago

I don't have a link to the policy but here is LJ saying that's what happened. https://lemmy.world/comment/2009322

[-] Stovetop@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago

Google definitely does not follow their own policy. It is widely known that they are incredibly inconsistent when it comes to enforcing rules and policies for apps on the Play store, delisting apps for a variety of arbitrary and often incorrect reasons.

[-] dialecticcake@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago

A post doesn't matter to me if I legally agree for that data to be collected as a requirement for installing the app.

[-] sabreW4K3@lemmy.tf 2 points 11 months ago

Nope

[-] kenbw2@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago

Yep, losing a sale from me for this

I can live with it being closed source, but I want an app without trackers built in (even if they're not used)

[-] wahming@monyet.cc 11 points 11 months ago

Google doesn't allow it, nothing the dev can do

[-] kenbw2@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago

I'm afraid it's a no deal from me.

I think it's safe to say the Lemmy community is much more mindful of trackers in apps

[-] dialecticcake@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago

I didn't find anything against having both a paid app and a free app in the Google's Policy Center.

While you can't have two apps called the same thing, e.g., both apps called 'your app name', you can have one app called 'your app name' and another app called 'your app name pro'.

I found advice going back years saying one just needs to create a separate project like this. And here is the most recent source I found saying the same thing and it goes further and lists apps that are on the store with both paid and free versions. I also did my own search and found this example: My Lightning Tracker & Alerts is free and My Lightning Tracker Pro is a paid app.

And regardless the dev saying they won't use the data from paid users -- that doesn't matter to me when legally by using the app I signed away permission for that data to be collected.

[-] wahming@monyet.cc 6 points 11 months ago

https://lemmy.world/comment/2000775

[+] dialecticcake@lemmy.world -10 points 11 months ago

Linking a message saying that someone was temporarily suspended doesn't sway me especially when I see apps on the store that have both paid and free versions of their apps like the app I linked earlier. If they and others can do it, why can't the dev for Sync?

Now if someone could share a link to a policy document by Google saying "You cannot have both a paid version and an unpaid version of an app on the play store" then I would be very happy to be corrected here and I will happily adapt my stance to support that. (Seriously, I don't mind being corrected -- I'd just prefer something official from Google.)

And so it's a deal breaker for me. And while I never used Sync for Reddit, I am thankful to all the app creators for helping the community often out of pocket and/or while being severely underpaid for years. And I hope this dev will do well financially with other users who have loyalty or different priorities than I concerning privacy and transparency.

[-] xeetzer@feddit.ch 11 points 11 months ago

The "someone" is the developer of Sync though.

[-] wahming@monyet.cc 9 points 11 months ago

You're asking me why Google has inconsistent or opaque policies? God knows, it's just one of those things I expect from big tech companies at this point. I'm just pointing out why the dev isn't doing it, because he got suspended for it previously.

[-] dialecticcake@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago

Yeah I agree re opaque policies as if someone can get suspended for this, it would be nice if it was easy to find a policy regarding it. Thanks for your response.

[-] Leuthil@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

This goes way back to when Google first introduced IAP. They were pushing to remove dupes from the store because it caused separate reviews and ratings. It could be that they just temporarily enforced it and now it's not a concern for them anymore.

I remember when this happened to Sync for Reddit. Unfortunately Google Play Store, like most of these app stores, can enforce almost anything they want even if it's outside of their policy because some stuff is so vague. And it's usually hard to get clear information from anyone when your app gets pulled or whatever.

[-] dialecticcake@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago

Yeah I was going to try the app based on all they hype but I noped out based on the trackers and that you have to accept all those permissions regardless if you pay. A dev saying they won't use the data of paid users -- that isn't the kind of thing I would expect to be enforceable when legally you've already signed permissions for the data to be collected/used.