I hate agreeing with the right, but the EU has wanted this solved for them and only as it becomes obvious that UA can't rely on a country half a world away to save it has the EU actually started to do the work.

Meanwhile, Europeans throw shit at Americans about all this.

What the fuck?

Glad to see this happen, keep going. But damn if it doesn't make y'all look just as shitty and incompetent as us Americans.

[–] MrMakabar@slrpnk.net 29 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Most European countries stopped importing Russian fossil fuels about a year after the full scale invasion. That reduced European spending on Russian fossil fuels by about 90%. Right now the big buyers are mainly Hungary and Slovakia as well as some LNG contracts, which have not been banned, because Hungary and Slovakia block those sanctions. Also pipeline oil remains an issue, but it seems like most European countries have just given Ukraine the go ahead to blow up the pipelines going towards Hungary. Well as long as the explosions happen in Russia.

[–] Tuuktuuk@piefed.ee 10 points 1 week ago (1 children)

European countries have just given Ukraine the go ahead to blow up the pipelines going towards Hungary. Well as long as the explosions happen in Russia.

The thing is, Ukraine is contractually obliged to the western countries to deliver any oil the Russia sends through the transit pipes. It's also responsible for making sure the pipes within Ukraine's territory remain in good condition.

But, it's not in any way responsible for the Russian pipe network, only for its own. It's the Russia's responsibility to keep its oil pipe network in good shape, and it's the Russia's and only the Russia's problem if the pipes within its get damaged in some war. Ukraine has all the right to bomb the shit out of those pipes in the Russia, because Ukraine has never signed any contract with any EU countries that says otherwise. And if the pipes don't work in the Russia, then the Russia is breach of its contractual obligations with the EU countries and must pay compensation, even if the pipes were blown by Ukraine.

Ukraine is not allowed to do any harm to the pipes in its own territory but it is allowed to do harm to the same pipes on territories outside Ukraine.
That system with these contracts is absolute intellectual madness.

[–] MrMakabar@slrpnk.net 1 points 1 week ago

It is also in the interest of Ukraine. There are oil reserves in the parts of Ukraine currently occupied by Russia. Those pipelines are a great option to sell that oil to Hungary and so on.

[–] Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works 24 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Meanwhile, what support we could muster here in the US from the start continues to wane.

The support from the US has basically been zero since January, and since July Europe has been shit too: https://www.kielinstitut.de/publications/news/ukraine-support-tracker-military-aid-falls-sharply-despite-new-nato-initiative/

it becomes obvious that UA can't rely on a country half a world away to save it

I mean, the US did sign a pretty big treaty saying they would...

has the EU actually started to do the work.

Bull fucking shit. Europe has sent more aid to Ukraine than the US since day one.

[–] bluGill@fedia.io 1 points 1 week ago

I mean, the US did sign a pretty big treaty saying they would...

NATO is big, but Russia has so far avoided anything that would trigger it. They are skirting the edges, but so far nothing that matters.

The US did exactly what the treaty with Ukraine said: they brought this matter to the UN security console - where Russia used their veto to ensure nothing happened.

[–] Supervisor194@lemmy.world 12 points 1 week ago

I hate agreeing with the right

Then don't. Make no mistake, we are living in the world the United States wanted. It's disingenuous for the right to come along and be like "look at these freeloading Europeans" when hegemony was the reason the United States ordered things the way they were.

The reason they talk like this is because the American political class has been successfully captured by Russia and Russia now sets the agenda. Hegemony for the United States is decidedly not at the top of their list.

[–] kami@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 1 week ago

Orange pedophile. Enough said.

But yes, I kinda agree with you in the first part.

[–] khannie@lemmy.world 5 points 1 week ago

I feel your sentiment, but the reality is straightforward - Arms manufacture in the US is years ahead of the EU. We're catching up fast (not at wartime rate, but fast) but you guys were so, so far ahead of us that all we could do was look around and naively go "FUCK" then start pumping money into the problem (both supporting Ukraine financially and building our arms industry).

[–] gustofwind@lemmy.world -4 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I can’t imagine a bigger embarrassment for America or Europe if it ends up true that European social democracy was completely dependent on American military subsidies

[–] khannie@lemmy.world 7 points 1 week ago (1 children)

In what world would European social democracy have been dependent on American military subsidies?

We have given Ukraine more since the get go financially and as purchases of arms from the US while we rebuilt our (naively quiet) arms industry.

The embarrassment is in thinking that a huge amount of trade with Russia would deter invasion and on that I, and everyone else, is rightly embarrassed.

[–] gustofwind@lemmy.world -2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Right wing parties are already resurgent in Europe and money spent on war has to come from somewhere.

We have many reasons to worry and not many reasons to feel good.

[–] khannie@lemmy.world 5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

If history has shown us anything, it's that right wing parties love war.

To ease your mind a little, the most recent general election in Ireland had us move left and the presidential election was another, fairly hard, shift left.

[–] gustofwind@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Oh I actually have full faith in the Irish yall have been absolutely admirable lately. You have no idea how popular Ireland has become here among the left

My worries are squarely on the mainland specifically how immigration propaganda continues to be extremely effective, the future of austerity, and if Russian backed parties will actually succeed

[–] khannie@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

That's very kind. Thank you. I genuinely don't see us as outliers, we just use our small country position to make harder stances. The Baltics do the same. Absolutely love them.

I absolutely swear to fuck that we, along with the huge level of very deliberate European integration policies (and I firmly believe that the forward thinking of the Erasmus program is the best money the EU ever spent) will prevent any madness.

I know they're making gains, but I firmly believe that good sense and education will prevail.

[–] gustofwind@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Yeah the European project is really fabulous to behold as an outsider especially. Also incredibly frustrating to see such different peoples unify so effectively while America somehow always divides

Still I actually think America will also prevail against this moment, in no small part due to some wisdom of our anti monarchist founders and the brilliant notion of federalism, but also because I beleive the majority of people in America and Europe are in fact on the correct side of most issues.

But I also think we shouldn’t hesitate to raise the alarm bells because it’s us who must maintain constant vigilance. It’s a lot easier to destroy than create.

[–] khannie@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Yeah the European project is really fabulous to behold as an outsider especially.

I actually think we're bogged down in the quagmire that the US got rid of early. A federal EU would be so, so great but holy Jesus we'll never, ever get there and that's a beautiful thing in it's own way because I love that I can travel for an hour and be in a totally different culture. It happens in the US too but over broader geography.

Still I actually think America will also prevail against this moment

Of that I have no doubt, friend. I've spent a decent amount of time over there and I'm very fond of the place and the people. The angry have the microphone at the moment but it'll pass. I can see it coming. I hope you do too.

I've been closely looking at the correlation between 1933 Germany and modern day US and there is a horrifying amount of correlation, but you have stronger safeguards than you think, despite all efforts for the current administration to replicate the Nazis. The first amendment on it's own could save us all.

[–] gustofwind@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago

Yeah it didn’t really matter too much how different our states were before mass industrialization but the entire 20th century was basically wrangling the different states into the America we know today. And still we are fighting rogue states that do things like imprison women for miscarriages…

One of our greatest weaknesses currently being exploited is we didn’t really actually solve many of these issues on paper…we just have a common law system and trust the people elected to not stray too far from accepted norms or we’ll end up in court.

Thankfully we have a significantly empowered and fairly independent judiciary but that’s basically the only thing in their way right now besides the states themselves.

So I’m actually fascinated to see what legal solutions you all get to the federalism and army problem because ours is currently being tested to the absolute brink of failure

[–] TheEighthDoctor@lemmy.zip 3 points 1 week ago

And still buy Indian products and services powered by Russian oil