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209

Hamas accuses Israel of breaching ceasefire by ‘killing at least 24 people’ since Friday (www.theguardian.com)

submitted 1 week ago by IndustryStandard@lemmy.world to c/world@lemmy.world

43 comments fedilink hide all child comments

A senior Hamas official on Thursday accused Israel of flouting the ceasefire by having killed at least 24 people in shootings since Friday, and said a list of such violations was handed over to mediators, Reuters reports.

He said:

The occupying state is working day and night to undermine the agreement through its violations on the ground.

The Israeli military did not immediately respond to the Hamas accusations. It has previously said some Palestinians have ignored warnings not to approach Israeli ceasefire positions and troops “opened fire to remove the threat”.

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[–] xyzzy@lemmy.today 58 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Israel has been violating the agreement since the beginning, just like last time. They're looking for any excuse to resume full-scale bombing, especially now that people have returned to Gaza City.

Hamas has returned all living hostages and 1/3 of the dead ones in good faith, but can't return any more without heavy excavating equipment since there are ruins of entire buildings on top of them.

Israel will withhold that equipment and then say Hamas is in violation. This was likely their plan all along.

[+] couldhavebeenyou@lemmy.zip -11 points 1 week ago (2 children)

They don´t need to look for an excuse. Hamas is already saying they won´t disarm. So even if they return all the bodies, that alone means they´re in breach of the ´peace plan´ and Israel can go back in either way

[–] homura1650@lemmy.world 10 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Disarming was not part of the agreement.

[–] mrdown@lemmy.world 5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

The disarment was not in step one and hamas did mention that before returning the hostages so it is Israel who broke the deal like they always do

[+] couldhavebeenyou@lemmy.zip -6 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

"Step one"? "Deal"?

I'm talking about the imposed 'peace plan' with 20 points. Here's what's supposed to happen after the hostages are released:

Once all hostages are returned, Hamas members who commit to peaceful co-existence and to decommission their weapons will be given amnesty. Members of Hamas who wish to leave Gaza will be provided safe passage to receiving countries.

Currently we're at the point where there's a handful of dead bodies left, probably in collapsed buildings or tunnels. Do you think that that Hamas found the magic loophole that lets them stay in power while they turn 'step one' into some neverending archeological adventure?

[–] homura1650@lemmy.world 8 points 1 week ago (1 children)

The 20 point plan was never agreed to by anyone. Trump proposed it. Hamas agreed to release the hostages; surrender control of Gaza to a body of Palestinian technocrats.

[+] couldhavebeenyou@lemmy.zip -9 points 1 week ago (1 children)

never agreed to by anyone

That's completely delusional.

Here's a map showing which governments support Trumps 'plan'.

[–] Vupware@lemmy.zip 7 points 1 week ago (2 children)

That has nothing to do with what was actually agreed on. And not one of these red countries speaks or has the license to speak for Palestinians in Gaza; I’m not sure what you’re trying to prove here.

[–] Doorbook@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago

Yes people who are not following closely might get confused. The Trump plan is actually a proposal. This step one is the same as what Hamas agreed to last July and have been saying for the last two years.

[–] couldhavebeenyou@lemmy.zip -1 points 1 week ago

That has nothing to do with what was actually agreed on.

Well @homura1650@lemm.ee claimed no-one agreed to the 20-point 'plan'. How does that map not have anything to do with that??

And not one of these red countries speaks or has the license to speak for Palestinians in Gaza

Sure, but that's exactly the point: Palestinians in Gaza didn't have any say in this. It is imposed upon them. It basically outlines Hamas' surrender as the price for peace.

This exact hostage deal was on the table since Biden. Hamas didn't accept it because it didn't include Israel stopping the war. What do you think made them change their mind?

[–] mrdown@lemmy.world 6 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Israel breached the terms before the hostages was even released so no. Hamas did not violate it , it was israel

[+] couldhavebeenyou@lemmy.zip -6 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Which "terms" are you talking about??

Again, you seem to be under the impression or illusion that there is some kind of balanced "deal" between Hamas and Israel. There isn't. Donnie T and Bibi B basically gave a list of demands, starting with returning the hostages and continuing with Hamas disarming and dissolving. And if Hamas doesn't agree, Israel goes back in and continues what they were doing two weeks ago. With Trumps full support as well as all the countries that agreed to his 'plan'.

[–] mrdown@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Why are you deflecting. Just admit the phase one asked israel to stop the war so the hostages get released safetly. Israel did not abude and continued the killing. So Israel breached the term of the first time which Hamas can rightfully call the desl null if they want to

[–] Doorbook@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago

They are not deflecting if they have no clue what is going on. Is just ignorance and lack of knowledge.

[–] couldhavebeenyou@lemmy.zip -3 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Deflecting? Can you explain how I am deflecting? I'm arguing why your point is irrelevant.

'Phase One', as you call it, requires Israel to 'withdraw to the agreed upon line'. Do you think that means that IDF soldiers aren't just going to fire on Palestinians they think are wandering too close? If it gets you off, sure, I'll admit that that's not conductive to the agreement.

But do you really think that after 70k+ dead, and multiples maimed and traumatized, and with Israel on the brink of razing Gaza City, they're going to call the whole damn thing off because of some (and excuse my wording) small incidents?

[–] mrdown@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

The deal rewuired Israel to stop thr killing, israel did not accept that yet you can't admit you are wrong and keep talking sbout stuffs

Israel did not only shot palestinians near the line they also did airstrikes during the cease fire. Like they keep bombing Lebanon during the "cease fire" stop making excuses to Israel

[–] couldhavebeenyou@lemmy.zip -1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I'm not making excuses for Israel

I'm trying to explain to you that this isn't a sports game where Israel gets ejected if they get two yellow cards

[–] mrdown@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

You said it was Hamas who breached the ceasefire terms that's an excuse for Israel

They don´t need to look for an excuse. Hamas is already saying they won´t disarm. So even if they return all the bodies, that alone means they´re in breach of the ´peace plan´ and Israel can go back in either way

[–] couldhavebeenyou@lemmy.zip -2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

The current ceasefire is in place to facilitate the hostage exchanges.

The larger 'peace plan' sees this ceasefire continuing if Hamas continues to play ball, and ending if they don't.

[–] mrdown@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

The phase 1 was to release all hostages in exchange of Israel suspending it's attack. Israel breached it and by default the whole "peace plan" . How many time do I need to repeat the reality?

Hamas said they will discuss the rest of the rest after phase one and Trump accepted so no Hamas did not lie about anything and did not breach anything

[–] couldhavebeenyou@lemmy.zip -2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I'm originally replying to this:

They’re looking for any excuse to resume full-scale bombing, especially now that people have returned to Gaza City.

Nowhere am I saying Hamas lied about any of this or that they breached any agreement.

[–] mrdown@lemmy.world 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Why are you lying?

They don´t need to look for an excuse. Hamas is already saying they won´t disarm. So even if they return all the bodies, that alone means they´re in breach of the ´peace plan´ and Israel can go back in either way

Israel is the won who breached phase one so that mean they breached the peace deal itself unlike what you claim. Breaching a phase that didn't happen yet makes zero sense logically .

[–] couldhavebeenyou@lemmy.zip -1 points 1 week ago

You need to understand that both xyzzy and me were talking about future events. I'm sure if you did, you wouldn't have accused me of lying.

They were stating that Israel was fishing for Hamas to make a mistake so they'd have an excuse to resume full-scale bombing in the future and I replied that it was looking like Hamas was already going to give them one in the future

I would draw a timeline for you but I must admit I don't know how to attach it here

[–] homura1650@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Are you saying that Israel and the US acted in bad faith when they agreed to Hamas's more limited counter offer; then pocketed the front loaded benefit of the hostage release before reneging on their half of the agreement?

That would be like agreeing to negotiate so your enemy is not prepared for a surprise bombing campaign. Or bombing the country that volunteered their territory to host negotiations because they were hosting your enemies negotiators.

Or claiming a desire to negotiate while killing the enemy negotiators.

[–] couldhavebeenyou@lemmy.zip -5 points 1 week ago

'Counter offer'?

I really have to keep myself composed reading this

Hamas 'agreed' to the hostage exchange that was forced on them, because otherwise Israel was going to raze Gaza City with Trumps full support, and a lot of other countries' silent support. The next thing that will be forced on them is disarming and making room for 'peace troops' with Gaza's administration being taken over by the honorable dipshit Tony Blair.

What do you think the consequence will be if they refuse??

Do you think Bibi and Donnie are going to throw their hands above their heads because Hamas called their monumental bluff?

[–] FridaySteve@lemmy.world 17 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Did anyone else catch the aggressive dick riding on the part of the mainstream media after Trump announced the end of 3000 years of hostility in the middle east? I wonder if that was a way of demonstrating why it's always been regarded as a bad idea to go on international news and declare peace in the middle east because anyone with any experience knows how quickly things fall apart...

[–] nondescripthandle@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

They agrandized it because they want you to believe it over now and you can stop thinking about gaza and how much of your tax dollars are funding a still ongoing genocide.

[–] IndustryStandard@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago

Mainstream media desperately wants to manufacture enough consent for Israel to continue committing genocide against babies and children. over some dead Israeli bodies.

[–] HazardousBanjo@lemmy.world 7 points 1 week ago

You mean the ceasefire was entirely theatrical bullshit from Netanyahu and Trump?!?!

That's gotta be a shock to literally nobody.

[–] kescusay@lemmy.world -5 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Yeah, this "peace" isn't going to last a week, sadly. The Israeli government has a taste for genocide now and likes it, while Hamas doesn't know how to stop being murderous terrorists. Mix the two together, you get... a lot of dead innocents who made the mistake of existing in Gaza.

Goddamn it.

[–] IndustryStandard@lemmy.world 7 points 1 week ago (1 children)

while Hamas doesn’t know how to stop being murderous terrorists.

lol what

[–] kescusay@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago (3 children)

It's Hamas. They existed as a terrorist organization long before now, and they've ruled Gaza without elections since the mid-2000's. Israel is 1000 times worse - like I said, they've got a taste for genocide. But that doesn't mean it's pleasant to be a Palestinian caught between the two.

[–] mrdown@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

How can you expect elections before the end of occupation? Hamas already accept giving up power in exchange of the end of the occupation?

Didn't other resistance groups also comited terrorism?

So if you want the end of Hamas ask your complicit country to stop supporting Israel ban all arms transfers and impose thr most extreme sanction of the settler colonial power

[–] kescusay@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I don't expect elections before the end of occupation. I am 100% in favor of Israel getting the fuck out of Palestine, and fully support a Palestinian state.

It's just important to be realistic about Hamas.

[–] mrdown@lemmy.world 0 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

I don’t expect elections before the end of occupation. Yes you do they’ve ruled Gaza without elections since the mid-2000’s There is no other interpretation than you want Hamas to step down unconditionally

Let's be realistic Hamas is the one who is retaliating against Israel occupation, settler colonialism and the eviction of Palestinians from their lands in the west Bank sometimes according the international law and many time with war crimes and terrorism.

Let's be realist about Hamas there is only two way to end Hamas
1- Total extermination of Palestinians
2 - End of the occupation

[–] UltraMagnus0001@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

It's always one way or the other, people don't get the big picture. Jon Stewart did a report long before these recent problems and highlighted how Nethanyahu help Hamas with bags of money to gaslight everything. Hamas opress the Palestinians almost as much as the isrealies. Hamas didn't come out of nowhere either. Take people's land and freedom away to give it to the zionist and they have no choice. The countries that carved out the land for the rich zionist didn't do anything to help the Palestinians. Create and apartheid regime and something is gonna burst. Similar to what they did for India and Pakistan and a lot of other places.

[–] mrdown@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago

You are out of your mind. Hamas did not kill ten thousands of civilians. The settlers alone oppresed more palestinians then Hamas itself.

Other colonial powers also encouraged divisions in the population they occupy it doesn't mean any side was part of the occupation forces. Hamas is the only one retaliating for settlers violence and expulsion of palestinians in the west bank while the PA who you don't critisize because it doesn't serve your both siding rhetorics also oppress opositions and do not protect palestinians from the settlers

[–] IndustryStandard@lemmy.world -1 points 1 week ago

Hamas is a resistance organisation fighting against a genocide executing Israeli collaborators. What the hell are you talking about.

[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 6 points 1 week ago

Just had to put a bothsides in there didn't you? With no real facts to back it up, mind you.

[–] mrdown@lemmy.world -3 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Both siding occupayion and genocide like people used to both side the usa war of agression on Vietnam

[–] kescusay@lemmy.world 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Oh, you can fuck right off with that nonsense. I'm not both-sidesing anything. Israel committed (and is going to commit, almost certainly) more genocide. They are absolutely the bad guys here. Acknowledging that Hamas hasn't been good for Palestine either isn't at all the same thing as pretending they're as bad as a country committing genocide.

[–] mrdown@lemmy.world 7 points 1 week ago

You can criticize and condemn Hamas war crimes without stripping them of the right to resist occupation. The occupation forces have always retaliated more strongly against any act of retaliation, legitimate or not.

Hamas said they accept the two-state solution with the pre-67 borders and are willing to give up power. Even if they are lying, Hamas would lose all support from Palestinians, and a free Palestine with an army—which our complicit countries oppose—would take charge to fight them. So if you really want no Hamas, keep pushing your leaders to sanction Israel, stop giving it diplomatic protection, impose a two-sided arms embargo, do your job, and continue BDS to the maximum extent you can afford.