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submitted 10 months ago by btaf45@lemmy.world to c/politics@lemmy.world
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[-] Telorand@reddthat.com 98 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Without reading, is the recipe Project 2025?

Edit: I don't see any mention of it, but it's essentially the same aim: consolidate power in the Executive branch by invoking various Acts and turning the military against US citizens exercising their rights to free speech, press, assembly, and protest.

I guarantee he didn't come up with this plan himself. This is the brainchild of Jason Miller or some other ghoul he keeps around.

"When somebody tells you who they are, believe them."

[-] Jiggle_Physics@lemmy.world 41 points 10 months ago

https://thf_media.s3.amazonaws.com/project2025/2025_MandateForLeadership_FULL.pdf

link to the pdf outlining what Project 2025 is, published by 50 of the most influential conservative organizations

[-] monotremata@kbin.social 30 points 10 months ago

It is, at least in part. This story cites a Washington Post article, which in turn brings up Project 2025.

An excerpt:

Much of the planning for a second term has been unofficially outsourced to a partnership of right-wing think tanks in Washington. Dubbed “Project 2025,” the group is developing a plan, to include draft executive orders, that would deploy the military domestically under the Insurrection Act, according to a person involved in those conversations and internal communications reviewed by The Washington Post. The law, last updated in 1871, authorizes the president to deploy the military for domestic law enforcement.

They explain earlier in the article that the use of the Insurrection Act would be in order to deploy the military to put down civilian inauguration day protests. It's a little oddly written, in that it makes it sound like this is the main thrust of Project 2025, though they do eventually mention:

For other appointments, Trump would be able to draw on lineups of personnel prepared by Project 2025. Dans, a former Office of Personnel Management chief of staff, likened the database to a “conservative LinkedIn,” allowing applicants to present their resumes on public profiles, while also providing a shared workspace for Heritage and partner organizations to vet the candidates and make recommendations.

In any case, yeah, they're not bothering to hide any of this. They know they control the media that their side hears.

Source article (as linked at the start of OP's article): https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/11/05/trump-revenge-second-term/

[-] Telorand@reddthat.com 18 points 10 months ago

Should this ever come to pass, it will be interesting to see if he can actually invoke it. The Insurrection Act has a very specific scope and circumstances for its invocation. Not that it matters to Trump, but the judges, federal personnel, legal experts, and military generals who would inevitably be affected aren't stupid.

I can see it as a theoretical flash point for a future civil war, so I hope we don't ever have to test the strength of our union that way.

[-] Nougat@kbin.social 11 points 10 months ago

Doesn't matter if the people who exact justice aren't stupid. Fascism happens right now; justice takes time. Trump and his ilk have been exploiting that gap for decades, and it works. That's why they've gotten steadily stronger the whole time.

[-] clif@lemmy.world 8 points 10 months ago

I'm more curious what the rank and file military would think, being mobilized against their own.

I'd like to think it wouldn't go well as far as obedience. But, I also know a lot of old gray beards that would see that and make life as difficult as possible for them if it did come to pass.

I'm not a conspiracy person by any stretch of the imagination, but have you ever seen rednecks rally for a cause? They HATE being told what to do, and they're... Let's say ingenious when it comes down to it.

... Now I'm realizing that, in context, it could be either side. But I don't see it happening.

[-] Nougat@kbin.social 10 points 10 months ago

I’m more curious what the rank and file military would think, ...

As long as a sufficiently large enough minority of rank and file toe the fascist line, they will be successful enough. Good people will take pause, being reticent to "mobilize against their own." Fascists will take no such pause.

[-] TheSanSabaSongbird 7 points 10 months ago

A sufficiently large enough minority of the senior officer corps has to be on board as well. There's no one in the enlisted ranks who knows how to operate the vast machinery of the US military. How does one operate a carrier group, for example, or an infantry division or even the nuclear arsenal? That shit is insanely complicated, and that's not even mentioning logistics. The Pentagon would have to be on board or it would never work.

[-] Nougat@kbin.social 1 points 10 months ago

You don't need carriers and nukes to do an incredible amount of physical and social damage, even if a full coup doesn't end up working. Small arms and land vehicles would do it, if - again, a sufficiently large minority - they're willing to dare anyone to stop them. Which they would most definitely do.

[-] Telorand@reddthat.com 1 points 10 months ago

I see what you're saying, but I think that assumes the rank and file haven't had that "do what I want" mentality trained out of them, which they have. The military works, because the grunts follow orders from their chain of command.

If Trump is president and orders them to mobilize against protestors or political dissidents, and their chain of command says no, I do not think a sufficient number of soldiers will help Trump's plans.

[-] PrincessLeiasCat@sh.itjust.works 2 points 10 months ago

I honestly think they may draw the line at going after people like Milley. I know what rednecks are like when they rally for a cause, but if enough of their superiors and friends also serving have enough doubt at seeing where all this leads, they may say no.

I hope, at least.

[-] STUPIDVIPGUY@lemmy.world 5 points 10 months ago

Yep, all I know is that if this ever comes to pass I will be arming myself and doing what is necessary within reason to protect democracy. If that means civil war then that's alright. "The strength of our union" is being tested as we speak.

[-] Patches@sh.itjust.works 6 points 10 months ago

If it comes to pass then arming yourself is too late.

You'll need to have arms before then. People talk about the second amendment and that scenario is exactly why it exists.

[-] Anamnesis@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago

Yeah, we left-wing people have needed to start arming ourselves and training for years now.

[-] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 1 points 10 months ago

Can we please outlaw biassed media? Yes yes yes, I know, media comes from people and is inherently biassed, but there is actual news media and there is the likes of oan and Fox News who both should be disbandoned and forbidden. Fuck that shit.

[-] jhymesba@lemmy.world 77 points 10 months ago

We need to be advertising this everywhere. Until the Fascist Taint that festers in the GOP is gone, we MUST vote Democrat in every election, even if we don't care for the guy on the Left.

[-] treefrog@lemm.ee 20 points 10 months ago

You mean the guy in the middle.

The closest to the guy on the left we have is Bernie and he's not running.

[-] MagicShel@programming.dev 40 points 10 months ago

Frankly, I don't care what you call it as long as everyone votes for not-fascism.

[-] funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works 2 points 10 months ago

If the people want fascism, in the end they will get it.

I dont think it'll ever go away. We can campaign (I can't vote) as much as we like but in the end, the choice is down to everyone (who can vote).

A lot of Americans, sadly, think they want it and have arranged themselves into a position where even they can't hear "fascism is bad" without taking it as a personal attack on themselves.

America is not in the same position as Germany. Hitler forced himself into power, if Trump is voted in, there may not even be as much external pressure to oust him, as "everyone" wanted that.

[-] jhymesba@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago

This shows you don't know history.

Hitler no more forced himself into power than Trump has. Hitler's rise to power is a good study in how differing approaches lead to Fascism. Hitler did try the force himself into power approach in 1923. It ended poorly for him. He spent a year there, coming up with a new plan. That included a manifesto (Mein Kampf, perhaps you've heard of it), and a change in strategy. Rather than trying the direct approach, he decided to do something different. He promised to only build his party, the National Socialist German Worker's Party, through democratic means, and waited for an opportunity.

24 October 1929 provided him the opportunity he needed. He leveraged the average German's frustration at the ineffectiveness of government to attend to basic needs and built support of his party from 2.6% of the vote in 1928 to 37.3% in July 1932. He'd see his support dip in November of '32 during a snap election, but he secured a promise to be appointed Chancellor of the Weimer Republic, and by March of '33, his party surged to 43.9%. Mind you, he achieved that goal by basically outlawing the political opposition, specifically the German Communist Party, and set up for his takeover of Germany. They worked fast. From March until July, every single other party in Germany was outlawed, and by August of '33, the only legal party in Germany was the Nazi party. And a year later, when Hindenburg died, Hitler officially took over his office as well, and became the Leader and Chanceller, which later just became Leader. You should know the German word for that. Führer.

There are differences between America's road to Fascism, just like there were differences in Italy and Spain's roads to Fascism. Hitler, Mussolini, and Franco are all three authoritarian Fascists that rose to power by promising people stability. So is Trump. Mussolini did force himself into power and maybe you're remembering that, but Hitler tried to force himself into power and failed, so he came at it a different way. A way that Trump's using. Mind you, the final step IS forcing oneself into power, and Trump will try to do so eventually, but again. The roadmap there is always different.

Trump's roadmap is still not written, but right now, I'd say we're somewhere around November of '32 on Hitler's. There has been a refutation of Trump's power and base, and his support is flagging. But the economy is still struggling, and people are dissatisfied with the Status Quo. Trump is counting on Manchin and Kennedy to draw just enough support from the Left that another bitterly divided Congress is formed in 2024, and he rides in on a unified Right into the Presidency. Then we'll be at March 1933 in Hitler's plan.

Now, go read up on Trump's Project 2025. That's basically Hitler's plan post-Chancellor. The most sure fire way to ensure you never lose another election is to jail your political opponents. We'll go from March to July on Hitler's roadmap, and many of us will be dead or in jail.

A lot of Germans wanted Fascism because people want to live more comfortable lives than their neighbours. That's the same for Americans. By dismissing that fact, Germans got Hitler. I'd not like to get Trump, thank you.

[-] MossyFeathers@pawb.social 19 points 10 months ago

Stop being a pedantic asshole. You're not wrong, but this isn't what we need right now. We are literally talking about a potential future president planning a coup in broad daylight.

[-] treefrog@lemm.ee 14 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

I didn't say don't vote for Biden. But for fucks sake, how we use words matter and if we keep aiming for the middle and calling it the Left, kids will keep growing up admiring FDR and never hearing of Eugene Debs.

So, no. I'll keep saying what I like. You can think I'm being a pedantic asshole if you want. Personally, I think you're being an asshole by resorting to thinly veiled name calling in an effort to shut me up. But whatever, opinions are like assholes and all of that.

Take care.

[-] ikidd@lemmy.world 9 points 10 months ago

What would probably help the most is voting in the Republican primaries.

[-] RedditReject@lemmy.world 5 points 10 months ago

I used to do that. Vote for the least extreme candidate, but they got further and further into crazy and I just couldn't bring myself to vote for any of them anymore.

[-] jhymesba@lemmy.world 1 points 10 months ago

No, what helps the most is voting in Democratic primaries, and then voting for the winner of that Primary, no matter if you like him or her or not, to keep ALL Republiicans out of office. Don't surrender your voice in the Democratic party in the misguided hopes that you can get the least crazy candidate on the Right (who frankly is going to be crazy by any reasonable measure). Why should we be responsible for fixing their shit, anyway?

[-] CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world 17 points 10 months ago

What a bizarrely weird system we have in which we have to stand by and watch this piece of human filth actually announce his plans for fascism, and then....let him try to do it.

[-] Empricorn@feddit.nl 15 points 10 months ago

Even if it would be difficult or possible to achieve, by announcing their intent, isn't this blatant witness intimidation for his upcoming civil and criminal trials by Trump and his team!?

[-] Coach@lemmy.world 6 points 10 months ago

"First, you grab the pussies. Then, you grab the democracy. Then, you grab the power." - Trump (probably)

this post was submitted on 07 Nov 2023
255 points (96.4% liked)

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