Green - An environmentalist community

The only reason it's so much more expensive than animal-based meats is because of the amount of subsidies the meat industry gets. Actually, now that I think about it, all of the major pillars of the US agricultural industry, whether it be meat, corn, or dairy, are upheld by subsidies.

When compared to more traditional plant based protein, plant based meat it is:

• more expensive
• much less healthy
• doesn’t taste as good

Now hold on just a minute!

Plant based meat is expensive and unhealthy, but I'll be damned if I let you besmirch my junk food!

In Canada, A&W's "Beyond Burger" is actually even better tasting than a regular meat burger imo.

once the cost comes down below animal-based meat it will see wide adoption

oh yeah, absolutely. the nanosecond it becomes cheaper is the moment McDonald's and all the other large corporate fast food places make the switch. taste or anything else is secondary to shareholder profits anyways (which in this case is a good thing at least)

What is "plant-based meat" vs "traditional plant-based protein"? Like, which things are in which categories? Tofu? Beans? Seitan? Peanut butter?

You often hear this take from non-vegans. If someone wants to make substitutes, what's the problem? Who cares?

Agreed, meat serves a specific role within traditional dishes. I find well cooked mushrooms to be one of the better substitutes in most sauce based dishes, though it lacks in protein. If we are going full vegan I believe South Indian to be some of the best cuisine in the world.

There is so much flexibility in cooking. I got some beyond meat Jamaican patties this week and I just genuinely wasn’t impressed with the flavor and texture.

I’d argue that bad implementation of substitutes is generally the culprit here. Meshing well with the cuisine is a better move. I’d rather have a curry rice with herbs filled patty.

Anyway I guess my point is that making meat replacement options just taste “OK” isn’t doing a lot of favors.

Many (probably most) vegetarians or vegans didn't start that way, so having the option to have some familiar foods without the meat is nice, beyond stuff for example is not cheap where I live, so it's a treat to have one, but sometimes you just feel like a greasy hamburger that tastes like beef

For some people they need a sufficient meat replacement to be able to give up meat. People with ARFID for example who already have very limited food options and have a preference for meat can find it very difficult to just have vegetarian meals

https://www.aier.org/article/the-true-cost-of-a-hamburger/

If that is to be believed it says their study in 2015 showed the cost of beef bring brought from $30 to $5 (I assume per pound, but 1/6th cost is rediculous)

That is much higher than I expected

That's not strictly true. The practice of applying the value of subsidies and applying it to retail cost of a product is bad-faith. Not saying some of these subsidies shouldn't be changed.

For example, many of these subsidies just give "Big Ag" an advantage over smaller farms, and actually lower the quality and value of meat on the shelves while raising prices (by hurting competition).

And depending on where the numbers come from, one of the "subsidies" generally included in numbers is the "lease" cost of letting animals graze on national parks. This is an incredibly complicated "subsidy" because it is a net good for the National Parks and for the environment to allow that to happen.

Finally, people generally consider "animal products purchased by government" to be a subsidy. Technically it is, but you can imagine that the army buying what it needs isn't giving an industry an unearned advantage.

Most importantly, these subsidies aren't the government giving ranchers money.

There's no question that some of these subsidies need to be changed dramatically. But you're very likely to NOT see a massive or long-term price jump when they do. (ref)

For me, I buy meat from places that don't benefit from these subsidies, and I generally pay within the range of $1 more or less per pound than stuff from "Big Ag" in my grocery store.

Falafel doesn't taste like a cheeseburger. Beyond burgers taste like tasty cheeseburgers.

My take on this (an I'm vegan so there's a possibility of bias) is that most of the mainstream claims such as there being no health downside and a plantbased diet is significantly less harmful for the environment are simply true.

But there is a subset of vegans that for some reason believe they need to justify it further than that who say that plant based diets have some nigh on magical health abilities and they feel so much better etc, pretty much all of that is some form of bs. Just like the idea that humans didn't need to eat meat in the far past due to b12.

All in all, it's an infected debate where vegans/nonvegans just throw false shit out to see what sticks.

Maybe not ever, I'm hopeful for lab grown meat to be a success AND be good for the environment.

I'm in south America and there's a lot of plant based burgers available. And you know what? The cheapest costs double of a 100% beef burger.

Coincidentally, the half beef, half soy protein burgers are half price of 100% beef burgers, 1/4 of full plant based burgers.

Why is that? The half soy burgers are made by the same companies as the full beef burgers, might be related to economies of scale?

I said much the same on the Behaw thread. If price parity was there or a sliiiight premium, I'd probably be at least 80% veggimeat. And then as said on another comment, once mcD's/etc starts using it due to price, people won't think twice about eating and buying it. I don't think the need or want will be reducing long term as we give it what climate change has in sure for us, so whoever cracks scaling production will have it made.

I feel texture is there on most of the bigger name products, and as someone who doesn't usually seek out veggies, I loooove Beyond's flavor profile.

In the U.S. prices for meat are artificially brought down through subsidies. I searched around and saw that in 2015 the cost of beef was brought down to roughly 1/6 the cost.

If we subsidized plant based meats like that they would be less than half the cost of beef. That would bring more people to eating it (not everyone, but many) and that should in theory reduce emissions for all those supplemented purchases.

I agree, but disagree. Aspartame is not a real cancer risk, but neither is red meat. Red meat is technical 2A with Aspartame 2B, but both have shown no signs of causality.

Similarly, zero cancer deaths have ever been attributed to red meat (~34,000 have been attributed to processed meat).

Red meat's fine in moderation. Aspartame is fine in moderation. NOTHING is fine in excess.