this post was submitted on 27 Aug 2025
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History Memes

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[–] Eq0@literature.cafe 35 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Dropping some context: Vercingetorix is viewed as heroic in the most romantic way. The war against Rome was lost, but against all hopes he still succeeded in unifying the gallic tribes (that had been up to that point defeated one by one by Cesar). Once united, they were able to put up a meaningful, if doomed, last stand. As their leader, he was then able to divert punishment from his people towards himself, thus avoiding a complete wipe out of the gallic tribes and building a base for a gallo-roman society (while up to that point Rome had mostly culturally erased the previous occupants of their land). That’s what the myth is about.

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 18 points 2 days ago (2 children)

As their leader, he was then able to divert punishment from his people towards himself, thus avoiding a complete wipe out of the gallic tribes and building a base for a gallo-roman society (while up to that point Rome had mostly culturally erased the previous occupants of their land).

Vercingetorix is lionized because, as you mention, he led a romantic last stand against Roman domination. But this section, I must point out, is certainly not true. Even as near as the Etruscans and Latins, or as distant and hostile as the Punics and Spaniards, Rome had not culturally erased previous occupants of the lands they had conquered at the time, and Rome had no intention of wiping out the Gallic tribes, nor was that amongst the justifications given by Vercingetorix for the uprising.

[–] Eq0@literature.cafe 7 points 2 days ago (1 children)

And here I am, now reading De Bello Gallico! Thanks ;) I had been looking for a reason to start it for a while, now I guess it’s a good time!

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 4 points 2 days ago

Much of it lacks context of the background of the conquest, being largely meant as a justification for Caesar's specific actions, but it's a damn good read!

[–] Eq0@literature.cafe 2 points 2 days ago

Thanks for the clarification! Honestly, I only know the pop version, not the real history, so that’s much needed clarification!

[–] Diplomjodler3@lemmy.world 5 points 2 days ago (2 children)

He got pretty close to winning too.

[–] Klear@quokk.au 10 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Plus there was that one tiny undefeated village.

[–] BuboScandiacus@mander.xyz 3 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Of irreducible Gauls…

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 1 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Only if you regard Alesia as a near-run thing. Which is arguable, but not the position I would take. I am an unabashed Romaboo though, lmao.

[–] Diplomjodler3@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Are there any sources about it besides "De Bello Gallico"?

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 4 points 2 days ago

None that are contemporary. Some later Roman historians used other sources (which are not available to us, unfortunately).

More broadly, though, the core issue is that at Alesia, the big risk was Vercingetorix escaping with his force, rather than the Roman force being crushed inside the siege lines. The final major assault by the Gallic forces was focused on a single camp which was perceived as a weak spot in the mutually-supporting-and-fortified positions - if the assault had succeeded, the result would not have been the destruction of the Roman force (which would remain, even damaged, in a largely defensible position that could not be starved out by the logistically-strained Gallic army outside of the fortifications), but the rescue of Vercingetorix and the further emboldening of the uprising.

While that could have led to Vercingetorix eventually winning the war, Caesar's fortifications during the siege ensured that losing would damage the Romans and deny them victory (and perhaps more worrying to Caesar, damage his political standing at Rome), but winning would crush the Gauls. Asymmetric risks.

[–] claimsou@lemmy.world 9 points 2 days ago (1 children)

It was not France back then. US should keep at rewriting their history instead of rewriting other‘s

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 18 points 2 days ago (1 children)

It was not France back then

No, but 19th century nationalism ensured that Gallic tribes were seen by generations of French as, in some vague, suitably nationalist way, part of the French nation, and Vercingetorix in particular was lionized as an early hero in the history of France.

[–] Zos_Kia@lemmynsfw.com 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

He was unambiguously heroic in leading disparate tribes against the Roman legions. But yeah, he was a Germanic with no tangible connection to France as a modern nation state.

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 12 points 2 days ago (2 children)

He was certainly not a Germanic. The Gallic and Germanic tribes were largely at odds in this point in history - Caesar's wider intervention in Gaul was predicated in no small part on the plea from Gallic allies of Rome to expel Germanic invaders (a request which they may have come to regret, lmao).

Arguably, modern France is more Germanic than Gallic in origins, having its roots in the migrating tribes of the Germanic Franks and subsequent Frankish Kingdom, from which it gets its name.

[–] hakase@lemmy.zip 4 points 2 days ago

Even Vercingetorix's name is clearly continental Celtic, not Germanic.

[–] Zos_Kia@lemmynsfw.com 2 points 1 day ago

You're absolutely right thanks for the correction

[–] sirico@feddit.uk 3 points 2 days ago

This is just Brennus cheating good Romans out of gold again

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago

"Victory or defeat, what does it matter? What matters is doing it with S T Y L E" - France, probably