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Indian farmers reject proposed trade deals with West and prepare for July 9 national strike (peoplesdispatch.org)

submitted 1 day ago by yogthos@lemmygrad.ml to c/worldnews@lemmygrad.ml

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[–] commiewolf@lemmygrad.ml 14 points 1 day ago (2 children)

It seems quite disappointing that whenever I see pictures of these big marches in India with loads of red banners etc. It's usually older adults and elderly. I've yet to see such action with a sizeable portion of the youth taking part, and that should be concerning. If the older generation is more radical than the youth, the already fascist and insane Indian society really has no hope left.

[–] darkernations@lemmygrad.ml 7 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago) (2 children)

If the older generation is more radical than the youth, the already fascist and insane Indian society really has no hope left.

(1) Why aren't there more older folks marching similarly in the west? This should be more normal given demographic shifts.

(2) you're not looking hard enough at the extent of organisation (this was a just an example of a quick search for sources in English):

https://youtube.com/watch?v=Hw4at0DyZWM

https://peoplesdispatch.org/2020/08/28/how-a-communist-youth-organization-in-kerala-raised-usd-1-4-million-for-covid-19-relief/

Yes India has a significant hindutva fascist cesspool. But it also has some of the largest socialist organising (outside of China of course) in the world.

[–] commiewolf@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

Because older people, (and not just exclusive to the west), are usually tired, disillusioned, and often more reactionary compared to younger people. Making them unlikely to take part in strike action or demonstrations. Look at the Palestine action around the world and it is most apparent. Millennials, Gen Z etc. are the ones who have the most to gain from socialism and the most to lose from the current trajectory of global capitalism, and are the overwhelmingly more likely group to be radicalized.

However in India this is somehow upside down. This has a disturbing implication that the older people are the LESS reactionary group, which means that in a few decades, India will be MORE fascist once they die out.

I am no expert, but I am simply speaking as an outsider who occasionally keeps up with news about Indian socialism, particularly the Naxal revolution etc. which incidentally does have a lot of youth involvement compared to these other actions, but they are being crushed and dealt several setbacks in just the past months by the Indian government.

As for the youth action you have listed, comparatively this is still shockingly little. I have yet to see anything on the level of even US and EU student protests against the genocide in Gaza, when India is arguably the second biggest ally to Israel after the US. That alone is so deeply troubling.

[–] darkernations@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago) (1 children)

What a pile of (racist?) nonsense. I gave you examples but instead of furthering your research you decided to call it quits after reading the samples. It's unbelievable the amount of orientalism even on an ML site. You're not really giving the impression you are worth convincing otherwise. As bad as India is westerners and their bootlickers are the worst.

[–] commiewolf@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

Great, just jump to baselessly calling it racism when I point out clear concerns about the Indian left, all without addressing any of my points. You don't know the first thing about me, I'm not a westerner, an "Orientalist", or anything of the sort. I'm an internationalist Marxist from the global South who expects more from India and Indians as a global South country. And am appalled and frustrated at the backsliding towards fascism that the country has been going through for decades. If you are an Indian (which there's nothing wrong with being, JFC), you shouldn't assume the entire world is out to discriminate against you at the slightest implication that your genocide supporting, fascist government is not receiving anywhere near enough principled opposition, especially because of its complicity.

[–] darkernations@lemmygrad.ml -1 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago)

(1) why may people get more reactionary as they get older in the west (let's say compared to these Indian farmers)? [Hint: it's to do with their relation with private property]. Why do you consider that the default to compare to other countries? [Especially when that fallacy was pointed out to you to for you to look up further]

(2) why then did you not bother investigating further before doubling down?

(3) you think I am being harsh? The socialist organisation in India is despite it being a capitalist hellhole with fascist hindutva normalised. They don't just protest, they are deeply networked with overground and underground political movements. They put westerners who have significant more privilege and access to way more wealth to shame. And that is the eurocentric bias I am critcising you on.

If you're meant to be an ML you should really investigate and you should also consider why you have your biases (hint it is not to do with any perceived lack of intelligence; you should be confident in your intelligence but question the systems that made you think a certain way). Someone implies you are racist? Consider the class colloboration perspectives on why that maybe the case. The only racism that matters is the prejudice with power; everything else is liberal hogwash.

I am a westerner and I have not undone being one; which means no matter what I may identify as between my ears I am a cog of racist machine that exploits the Global South - the only real hope of undoing that is through organisation. It is patronising to disparage those from the south who do socialist organising through difficult circumstances and use the lens of those more privileged (who do significantly less) to judge them by.

It is true you don't know me from Adam but you can look at my history if you want where I come down on hindutva freaks and apologists like a tonne of bricks. This, however, means jack-all with theory of political change but I thought I'd mention it for context and perspectives.

We are all learning here. You should learn from this too.

Edited: removed the gratituous swearing, if you're not a native anglo-speaker it could be distracting (or not)

[–] TankieReplyBot@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago)

I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:

[–] amemorablename@lemmygrad.ml 7 points 1 day ago

I wouldn't be so quick to judge. The youth may be organizing in other ways, or simply not being shown in the pictures as much. It's also possible that farmers as a group specifically tend to be older.