The queer people who are buying guns to prepare for Trump’s America : liberalgunowners

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 35 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (3 children)

You could make the argument that handguns aren't enough and people need plates and rifles just to ensure their right to protest.

The ~~4ASA4's~~ 4sas4's that never made it to Ukraine had some bad buzz over a miscommunication issue, but as long as you don't fall down on them they're insanely cheap level 4 plates and while there's a shit ton now, they won't be around forever.

Do I think I'll be shot wearing it?

Absolutely not, and honestly it would be a slim chance a shot hits the plate instead of of anywhere else.

But cops are cowards and bullies, they're not going to immediately turn to violence when they're outnumbered and out gunned.

It's sucks, but this is America. It's not enough to be strapped anymore.

Edit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xly5d5nQbfc

That's a guy testing them specifically and explaining the issues.

But those (really just one) issues are why they're $99 instead of $250 a plate.

And like I said, realistically you're not getting shot while wearing it. I'm specifically just talking about the visual deterrent for things like protesting so cops aren't as likely to immediately start copping at a protest.

And something tells me there are going to be a lot of protests coming.

You don't have to buy it right now because there's a sale it will likely be months/years till they run out of these. Some company made literal tons of them and a government contract fell thru.

[–] BeMoreCareful@lemmy.world 6 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I don't know too much about these. How much do they run?

[–] Fecundpossum@lemmy.world 18 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (2 children)

It varies based on features. Never buy armor that isn’t NIJ compliant, first and foremost. After that, plate curvature and weight reduction are the two primary factors that will drive up cost. I’m currently seeing $160 from RMA Armament, but that’s for level 4 flat plates that are 8.3lbs each. So, uncomfortable and heavy. For level 4 multi curve lightweight plates from the same maker, about $250 each.

But, I cringe a little when people recommend rifle plates. I own a set. They are miserable to run around in. They will slow you down dramatically when in most cases mobility and shooting fundamentals will likely decide the outcome of a fight. And even if your use case calls for them, there’s a lot to learn about proper plate carrier setup, that will take you a long while of YouTube deep dives to figure out how to develop a proper fighting kit.

Also, it doesn’t hurt to be 18-24 and positively fucking jacked, because that’s who plates are made for, soldiers, and if you’re round and out of shape and can’t run more than 20 yards at a time, you’ve got bigger fish to fry than body armor.

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 9 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (2 children)

about $250 each.

The 4asa4's are older standard made for Ukraine but ovreproduced.

They're 99/plate at a couple places now, which is ridiculous. It's been like that for about 2 months, and probably will be for a while. But eventually they'll run out.

The issue is the old standard doesn't have "drop testing" and these won't withstand a drop, they'll crack.

Quick edit:

And I know they're cringe.

But you can't deny police treat a protest differently when the other side has people in vests and rifles.

That's the only reason I'm recommending it.

But yeah, 20lbs doesn't sound like a lot till you're carrying it around all day. But wearing it out to a protest for 6 hours is a good way to get in shape.

[–] Fecundpossum@lemmy.world 5 points 6 months ago

I don’t think body armor is cringe, I just cringe at the thought of having to wear it, and starting someone down the rabbit hole of battle rattle full kit larping.

[–] MutilationWave@lemmy.world 2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

I've been thinking about getting plates and I'm not going to due to price.

Please keep in mind this is from someone who has never owned plates or a plate carrier or any kind of armor, but if a plate can't survive a fall, what happens when you need to get down prone fast, potentially into rocks? Are they going to crack?

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 3 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

what happens when you need to get down prone fast, potentially into rocks? Are they going to crack?

Yep, level 4 plates aren't metal, they're ceramic. It's a different kind of "toughness" basically the faster and more concentrated the impact, the better ceramic does. Like the alien energy shield in Stargate basically.

20 years ago they were incredibly fragile and would crack just looking at them.

These are "last generation" and greatly improved, but if you're wearing it and just fall straight forward they'll crack.

The newest you can do that twice, ever...

So the price jumps from $99 to $250. That's $75 for each time you faceplant but infinite falls for both if you put an arm out to catch yourself.

Metal plates obviously you can face plate as much as you want, they just aren't as good at stopping bullets and can result in "sprawling" where the bullet and steel from your plate get you in the arm/face.

Nothing is perfect.

[–] MutilationWave@lemmy.world 1 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

can result in "sprawling" where the bullet and steel from your plate get you in the arm/face.

Isn't that "spalling"?

No criticism here just want to get the terms right. I know if a vehicle gets hit and parts of it become shrapnel then it's called spalling. Or even if a little bullet hits something and breaks up, that's spalling. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

But yeah I don't mean faceplanting, I mean like you got down on some rocks quick then crawled forward. That would make the ceramic ineffectual? I would never buy metal armor. It's too heavy and from what I've read, doesn't work. I'm not looking to protect myself from some guy with a 9, I'm thinking about SHTF scenarios.

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 3 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Yeah, not sure if I got autocorrected or had a brain fart, but it's 100% spalling.

I mean like you got down on some rocks quick then crawled forward. That would make the ceramic ineffectual?

I mean, there is heft to them, they're still ~8lbs each. Which is think is about what metal is.

What some people do is buy a "trauma pad" which is very skinny foam meant to be worn on the inside to absorb the shock, and they'll put it on the outside side. Like, in the vest, but pad-plate-body instead of plate-pad-body.

If you haven't watched the video I linked up above, it's worth it. He's pretty scientific and goes over a lot of general stuff.

But just some stuff bumping against it isn't a big deal, these are designed for the military and worn in actual war for like over a decade at this standard. Just look at the stuff they do in plates for training, they're not gentle.

But honestly the point of a plate is to stop bullets that would kill you immediately, because there's an expectation medical aid is nearby. Without an emergency room a gut shot will kill you just as well as a lung shit, it'll just be 8-12 hours of absolute misery assuming you don't bleed out in the next hour.

So if society full on collapses, plates make less sense.

[–] MutilationWave@lemmy.world 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Leather is is then! It's cheaper, modifiable, and you're going to die anyway so why not look like Mad Max!

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 3 points 6 months ago

Honestly, yeah.

Even better if it's modern motorcycle gear, shit has built in pads and everything. Basically discreet riot gear

[–] AbidanYre@lemmy.world 4 points 6 months ago

I couldn't read that without thinking of Shrine of the Mall Ninja

[–] catloaf@lemm.ee 4 points 6 months ago (1 children)

And training.

Your fancy rifle and thousands of rounds aren't going to mean shit the first time you actually see combat if you haven't practiced.

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 5 points 6 months ago

I don't know if you read my comment or immediately forgot...

Like, half my comment is in response to what you just said, to respond to you I'd just be copying/pasting what's already there.

[–] Jake_Farm@sopuli.xyz 3 points 6 months ago

You can also make small arm body armor.

[–] DoctorWhookah@sh.itjust.works 31 points 6 months ago (4 children)

I’m all for it. If you truly want home defense: shotgun. I like all firearms in the hands of liberals though. Why shouldn’t we have them? The right does.

[–] Twinklebreeze@lemmy.world 9 points 6 months ago (1 children)

It's the only way to get any gun control legislation. Why would the right ban guns when only they have them? The more liberal, queer, and black/brown people have guns the more willing repubs will be to take them.

[–] SoftTeeth@lemmy.world 13 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Facts, the most sensible gun legislation in this country's history came after the Black Panthers formed.

[–] Count042@lemmy.ml 5 points 6 months ago

Signed into California law by Governor Ronald Reagan, in fact.

[–] Scolding7300@lemmy.world 2 points 6 months ago (4 children)

Why a shotgun? Easier to hit I'm assuming, but also more collateral damage

[–] thedeadwalking4242@lemmy.world 5 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Pistols put holes in people, rifles put holes through people, and a shotgun will take a chunk off a persons body and spread it over the wall

[–] zer0squar3d@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 6 months ago

One ounce slug.

[–] Duamerthrax@lemmy.world 3 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Racking a shotgun will also scare most aggressors. It's also simply much more visible to a home intruder. You're more likely not to even need to fire one compared to a hand gun.

[–] Rakonat@lemmy.world 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Paul Harrell (RIP Paul) pretty well debunked this, anyone who would be afraid of the shell being loaded would equally be afraid of a weapon being pointed at them, and racking the shell gives them time to react if they truly have hostile intent to warrant a shotgun being pointed at them.

[–] Duamerthrax@lemmy.world -1 points 6 months ago

The point is to telegraph that you have a gun to a home intruder before they get in eye sight. If the intruder doesn't hear it, then the home owner is in the same position as they would be if they hadn't bothered.

[–] DoctorWhookah@sh.itjust.works 3 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Easier to hit with when adrenaline is pumping. I’ve never had to nor hopefully will, but it’s what I’ve read. Makes perfect sense. Plus anything too powerful would go through walls when you inevitably miss.

[–] Quadhammer@lemmy.world 1 points 6 months ago

Hard to miss at the distance an intruder in your home would be with buckshot unless you live at buckingham palace. But also will very much go through drywall especially close range

[–] empireOfLove2@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 6 months ago

Easier to hit in a panic situation. And also shot pellets do not penetrate walls quite as easily as single bullets, so you're less likely to have accidental collateral damage.

[–] Rakonat@lemmy.world 1 points 6 months ago

While I concede that shotgun is the right tool for the job in some cases, I definitely argue it's not the end all be all and not appropriate in others.

If you live in a rural area or otherwise have a spacious home where a loaded shotgun can safely be stored in your bedroom or otherwise accessible in a moments notice without it being a massive safety hazard, then yes shotgun might be right for you.

For basically everyone else, a simple handgun is more than sufficient for home defense needs and can be kept safely where it can be retrieved while sleeping or other event where you believe an would be home invader is trying to enter your home or already has.

The real important part here is that if you are going to get a firearm for home defense, get trained how to use it. Many shooting ranges will have classes or put you in contact with an instructor who can show you how to operate the firearm, safely load and unload it, and good technique to use while handling it. And equally important, you are going to want range time with that firearm, not just to know how to shoot it, but ensure yourself it does work, what to do if it malfunctions, and hopefully improve your skill so you can hit what you are aiming at and avoid anything you aren't aiming at.

[–] kerrigan778@lemmy.world 1 points 6 months ago

Honestly shotgun for home defense is not necessarily good advice for many people, racking it to scare people away is terrible advice too, don't give away your location and give up the element of surprise. If they know people are in the house they are invading, assume lethal force is already on the table and don't give them a chance to point and shoot, even if it doesn't hit you it could hit a bystander. Shotguns with buckshot are very heavy recoiling and have serious risk of sending stray pellets through walls and potentially other people, you need to take ownership of the potential of every shot to end a life and a shotgun shoots 9 shots at once in a cone, it's not aiming easy mode unless you live alone in a house with nothing around it and even then the spread isn't enough that you don't have to aim decently.

[–] Jake_Farm@sopuli.xyz 15 points 6 months ago

Can't stop the signal, all humans have a right to self defense.

[–] ramenshaman@lemmy.world 15 points 6 months ago

Good

[–] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 10 points 6 months ago

It does make sense to get a gun over there. Shit is getting interesting.

[–] can@sh.itjust.works 9 points 6 months ago

o7

[–] ApathyTree@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

I totally respect their choice and will be making a similar one in the near future, for many of the same reasons, but a bit differently.

I sold my inherited firearms years back.. I mean what good is a bolt action .22 gunna do for protection in town, really, where I need to worry a lot more about securing my firearm despite living alone? It was a farm firearm, and now I regret getting rid of it because I want farm-space where a firearm will do me good.. so I’ll have to get another.. whoops. Should have just waited til I was older. On larger tracts of land, where you have warnings of people or animals approaching, it makes sense to have a firearm like that handy.

But I think another bolt action or similarly cumbersome rifle is about as dangerous as I want.. I’ve been at least passively suicidal my whole life (thanks, chronic pain!), but I can’t easily bite that bullet, flexible as I may be. :)

I have Navy expert marksmanship qualification, though. I had never fired a real firearm before that day, only airsoft or arcade light guns, did the training (and listened and followed directions) and have not since fired anything.

[–] Quadhammer@lemmy.world 1 points 6 months ago

What about a lever gun? Been thinking about getting one but i want it to shoot .44 or .45 caliber which gets pricey.

Though i imagine bolt action would actually be better for accuracy/stability

Liberal Gun Owners