askchapo

The first three books were incredible, and I think a lot of the show gets a knock-on effect from GRRM's original fan-base. In the same way that a Batman movie gets a good 2-3+ bump from comic book nerds, GoT is buoyed by folks that are enthusiastic about the original material on screen.

Like you said, the acting is stellar, although I don't feel like the younger main cast really hits their stride until S2/S3. I think the adaption, particularly for the first series, is a bit weak and rushed. You lose a lot of the inner monologues and flashbacks that make the perspective-based storytelling so compelling. Instead, you get the periodic (s)expository, where some supporting actor explains the plot to the mains. The visuals definitely improve over seasons (until the big drop-off in S8), although it still never gets to AAA motion picture quality.

I think the best seasons in the series are actually where they depart from the books - S4, 5, 6 - and aren't bound to a writing formula that stumbles in conversion to TV. The main cast is very into the material. The set designs are truly top notch. The wardrobe is particularly stunning. You really have to just stop and soak in those incredible fits.

But I also think GoT is something of a victim of its own success. One of the big appeals of the story and setting is in how it delivers on a dark and gritty medieval setting with periodic twists that catch you off guard in the moment but seem natural enough in hindsight. The amount of intrigue and politics GoT delivers on - particularly in the period when it was being released - resonated with the historical moment. People really were ready to believe Change Was Coming (one way or another). The overarching conflict between morality and practicality in an era when these were genuinely seen as political conversations worth having rang true in the moment. And a lot of subsequent franchises picked up on this, chopping and screwing the underlying story arcs into your Better Call Sauls and Stars War and Marvel shows, until they no longer felt fresh and original.

As to the finale? You shut your damn face about the Sporanos. That ending was spot on.

But whatever you thought of it, this was significantly worse. Everything from the screenwriting to the cinematography takes a huge plunge. There are scenes where you can't see what's on the damned screen because they didn't light it properly. There are scenes where characters mysteriously teleport from location to location without any sensible explanation. There are scenes where you can practically see the actors delivering the lines groan with their clumbsiness.

There's a notable step down from S6 to S7, in so far as the pacing picks up and they start craming more "What a twist!" moments into scenes than is comfortably paced. But they're wrapping things up and that's somewhat forgiveable. But S8 falls straight off a cliff. It genuinely ruins the entire franchise with how bad it lands.

1. People like it! Not that complicated really, it's probably one of the best looking fantasy TV series we've gotten. Early seasons really nailed things like casting, costume, and set construction and all that goes a huge way towards selling a show like this, it was a big deal. Even people who never saw a fantasy show could really quickly get behind Peter Dinklage and Sean Bean you know?
2. I don't know, it's highs are so much higher than it's lows.
3. Back to number 1.
4. First 4 seasons are very, very good and then it immediately becomes bad.
5. 3, 2, 1, 4 >>>> 5, 6, 7, 8
6. Sorry can't help you here, sometimes you gotta read a subtitles
7. Sopranos finale is great? It's like, an all timer?? Game of Thrones is always an all timer but in a very different way, it's bad, real bad.

Youre also allowed to just not be into something, you don't have to come here and tell us about how you thought it was reddit or whatever. Its allowed!

I think the show resonated with a lot of people because it didn’t fit into the stereotypical, moralistic good vs evil clash story that LOTR standardized for fantasy. The backstabbing, the realpolitik, the anti-fairy tale aspects, people liked that it put those prestige drama elements into the fantasy genre.

Overall, it’s stronger in the middle seasons, but loses itself once the show hits the point that they were past the novels and were working off of Martin’s notes on how he plans to finish the series. Both because they couldn’t crib from his writing, but also because the differences between the novels’ version of the narrative and the show’s version had digressed so much that they couldn’t reconcile the ending with where the show was, and their solution was, well, there’s a reason the last season got lambasted by the fans. So if it’s not appealing to you now, that’s only going to get worse by the end.

First of all, you have to keep in mind that Game of Thrones season 1 came out in 2011. Its plot might not seem that special today, but that's partially because in the 12 years since its release, everyone and their mother tried to imitate its success and we got bombarded with PreStIgE TV at every corner.

At the time, fantasy shows where still much more Tolkien-esque, and Game of Thrones was not just "dark and gritty", it was realistic. It was a show about politics & intrigue when every other fantasy story was more about slaying the big dragon to save the village. It was a fantasy story where actions had consequences, nobody had plot armor, when Ned Stark died at the end of season 1 it was a real shock for many viewers because he was the protagonist, surely somebody was going to save him at the final hour?

It's also like with Lost, the show's appeal tanked insanely hard after the finale came out, even for the first seasons. Because in the last 2 seasons, the "actions have consequences" aspect that really made the show work initially was just completely shot into the wind. The things that the previous 6 seasons slowly worked towards were just pissed on by the writers and replaced with phoned in anime resolutions. It was, by far, the worst ending and the worst dip in quality in any show I've ever seen, and that includes Lost. During the first seasons, everything that happens is a consequence of what happened before, which made it very fun for attentive viewers to speculate and theorize over, when a big twist happened it made sense in hindsight, there was a lot of information but there was always that reassurance that everything would make sense in the end, the many plot threads would eventually come together and form a satisfying big picture.

I know a lot of people who were huge fans of the show when it aired, myself included, and none of us has ever rewatched it, even the good parts. The finale retroactively killed everything that made the show good. I'm still mad about it.

1. Good characters, complicated story interactions, plenty of sex and violence for the hoi polloi. It has all the ingredients of "premium TV" so everyone laps it up.

2. First four seasons are pretty faithful adaptations of the first three-ish books. As soon as they run out of book material it starts to run off of the rails pretty fast.

3. Speaking for myself, I enjoy it because I enjoy the world building of Westeros. GRRM has plenty of faults as a writer, but the books have a coherent history and political landscape with minimal "because magic" answers to things. Contrasting with something like LOTR, ASOIAF feels like it's filled with real people with foibles and is cynical about the concept of monarchy as a whole.

4-5. Season one is an almost direct adaptation of the book and exists largely to set the stage, establish narrative rules (i.e. even "heroes" like Bran and Ned Stark aren't safe), and introduce the first round of a huge cast of characters. Seasons 2-4 kick the narrative into gear and are still faithful to the books with changes made for dramatic license that largely work fine as an adaptation. This is my favorite period of the show. You get many of the most shocking and iconic moments and get the most invested in the show. 5-6 start stretching things out with questionable deviations from the books. Seasons 7 and 8 are, as others have pointed out, flanderized messes that betray most of the character and narrative work that had been set up. A recurring joke is that the show traded porn-level nudity for porn-level writing.

6. Season 1 is very Dothraki heavy with subtitles, but it gets less so later on. I have a rip with no subs and it is funny how much you need them to understand what's happening in Dany's early story. Crafting formal fantasy languages is a legacy from Tolkien that they leaned into a little heavily early on, probably to establish bona fides with viewers.

7. People will debate the validity of The Sopranos finale, but GoT has objectively one of the worst finales in the history of the medium. It's painfully obvious that the show runners were just checking boxes and filling production quotas so they could move on to their next product.

Finally, the direwolves are dope as hell and get treated dirty at every turn in the show. They're essentially familiars for the Stark children rather than monsters and are interesting reflections for each of them. By the end they're totally abandoned in favor of boring dragons. Ghost is a good boy and I will not tolerate slandering of his good name.

I’m a fan of both the books and the series but I don’t care if people dislike it (since I like to think that I’m not treat-brained even though I am) and I also think there are plenty of weird problems with it, namely that the grimdark subgenre basically serves to justify the shittiness of our own world (“things could be worse, just look at GoT!”). I won’t spoil the ending for you but it definitely comes out very strongly against the idea that anything can actually get better. I’ve also realized lately that ethnic minorities which were very much present in medieval Europe (Jews, Roma) just don’t exist in GoT. We have the Dothraki, who are basically Mongols, and then some occasional vague references to darker skin that GRRM makes in the books now and then. That’s pretty much it? There are references to diversity and different languages, but minority groups are rarely if ever mentioned to be living in a massive city like King’s Landing for instance. As a Marxist it also frustrates me that the economic base for Westeros is barely depicted. Peasants either don’t exist or are passive, weak, on the run, etcetera, even though that is also historically inaccurate. We get some slave liberation in the series but the slaves themselves are also extremely passive.(It’s easy to say that “it’s just fantasy” in response but w/e.) GRRM definitely has better politics than Tolkien but he’s obviously not a Marxist.

That being said, for all his faults and annoyances, as a writer I am generally very impressed with GRRM’s abilities. His wealth of detail and dedication to complex characters, neverending conflict, and somehow managing to keep things interesting for thousands of pages (“and then things got worse,” tightening the screws for chapter after chapter after chapter)—it’s all really unrivaled IMO. Just randomly mercing main characters is also kind of funny, I have to admit, and really keeps readers on their toes—I don’t think it upsets them as much as in other series, either (Star Wars Disneyverse for instance) since they get kind of used to it?

1 - Some of the appeal of the books is present in the series, specially early seasons, so there's that. More cynically, it's probably the first instance of medieval fantasy prestige TV (I know there was other stuff like Pillars of the Earth and whatnot but those didn't have the HBO brand) so there was some novelty to it. Borrowing from Lindsay Ellis, it's "hot fantasy that FUCKS". It's juvenile as all hell and eyeroll inducing but it was key to marketing it to general audiences.

2 - decent 7 while it was running because of the whole social aspect and no hindsight of how shit it was going to get, light 3 now, and a 0 if you're in any way averse to gratuitous violence/sex.

3 - I think the appeal of the books that transfers to the series is a) some of the characters and b) the politicking.

The problem with the characters is that they get flanderized to all hell later on, or sometimes it becomes clear the showrunners didn't really understand them, or at least didn't know what to do with them. But still, some of them are compelling, even if they are fucking assholes.

I think the core appeal of GoT though is seeing an inflection point in the history of this fictional world. Not because there's wars going on, but because characters like Jon and Daenarys (not coincidentally fan favorites) are struggling to surpass the "might makes right" world they live in, and sometimes succeeding. Also because of the growing presence of supernatural shit. It gives this feeling of this new world peeking in and all the promise and terror that comes with this kind of change. The show fumbles both os these aspects REALLY hard later on though. That's because it bought into the "dark fantasy" meme and played down the supernatural aspects (nerd shit) and made a U turn back to the status quo (the last few episodes reek of liberalism).

4 - Typical to early seasons in some ways in the sense that it borrows heavily from the books, but the focus shifts to war stuff so there's some distinction there.

5 - it' been a while since I've seen the series, but seasons 1-4 are pretty decent, 5 is okayish, 6 was pretty bad and 7-8 are atrocious.

6 - Dunno, not a native speaker. I was fine with subtitles off most of the time though.

7 - Haven't watched The Sopranos yet, but GoT has probably one of the worst endings I've ever seen.

Imdb says there are nine noble families. Nine?

Depending on the point in the series they're counting from, this is probably the most prestigious houses, but it'd be like saying there are three political dynasties in the US, Bush, Clinton and Kennedy- there are a ton of less prestigious ones who are mostly vassals to the big ones.

As to your numbered questions it's been forever since I saw it so it's difficult but I'll try to answer:

1. I think people like the huge web of political alliances and back stabbing and conflicting interests. Plus the costuming, effects and music are all pretty good.

2. If you like seeing nobles scheme against each other it's top of class, otherwise no reason to watch I guess, sorry that this isn't a number/10. It would be better without some of the gratuitous sex scenes though, which is another reason one may not like it. cw:

   spoiler

   especially the violent ones

3. Same answer as 1, kinda the same question

4. Season 1 is better than the later seasons but IIRC it hits its stride in the midseasons?

5. (2-4 [or 5, don't remember])>1>6+ (but some of the music in the later seasons was pretty good and the effects remained awesome).

6. Characters do sometimes speak Dothraki or Valyrian. Also I just watch everything with subtitles so I don't really notice it now, it might be like, a lot of it? Also need help understanding nonce island accents sometimes.

7. I haven't seen the Sopranos but the finale is pretty bad.

It started what, over a decade ago? Think about it in context, it was the first fantasy show to be given a huge budget and weight behind it, the first to be given the ‘prestige television HBO’ treatment.

Don’t feel like you need to make a huge commitment, it’s fairly focused and you can take what you want from it.

Don’t care about the hype at all, people who make media their personality are not who you want to emulate, enjoy it or don’t it’s entertainment

I enjoyed the first like four or five seasons well enough.

Imdb says there are nine noble families. Nine? That a silly amount of stuff to keep track of. I feel like I'll need a conspiracy theory like board with red string so I can keep track of everything. But that's more of a commitment than I want to make.

I had read the first book and sort of categorized it as a fantasy series for people who like making charts. There's just a certain type of fantasy reader who seems to really enjoy referencing and/or making character charts to remember whose cousin did what and married who, and GoT is right in that wheelhouse. To be clear, there's nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't work for me personally, and sometimes I think that level of complexity is a writing crutch or distraction from some kind of lack in other departments.

the sopranos finale is fire

1. it wasn't just the first season, there's like 3 good ones before it started falling off. 3-4 years of phenomenal reviews while it was still good & popular probably does a lot to counter-balance later seasons' reviews, i imagine most people just stopped watching it, and didn't go leave negative reviews.
2. 3/10, 8 seasons, ~3 of them good... some creative rounding..
3. the cast is so good! never was that impressed with the cgi, worldbuilding, plot, battles... but a bunch of fabulous actors bouncing off each other in fancy costumes really elevates the shit. the show would've been completely limp if antagonists like the lannisters weren't so well played.
4. it's the best you get, more or less. there's battles and a bit more blood in the next ones but the red meat of the show is already there.

skipping 5, 6. yes there's dumb fantasy languages and it never goes away

7. much worse. so much worse