this post was submitted on 25 Sep 2024

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311

US to send $375 million in military aid to Ukraine, including medium-range cluster bombs (apnews.com)

submitted 10 months ago by MicroWave@lemmy.world to c/world@lemmy.world

73 comments fedilink hide all child comments

The U.S. will send Ukraine an undisclosed number of medium-range cluster bombs and an array of rockets, artillery and armored vehicles in a military aid package totaling about $375 million, U.S. officials said Tuesday.

Officials expect an announcement on Wednesday, as global leaders meet at the U.N. General Assembly, and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy uses his appearance there to shore up support and persuade the U.S. to allow his troops to use long-range weapon s to strike deeper into Russia. The following day, Zelenskyy meets with President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris in Washington.

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[–] JoMiran@lemmy.ml 34 points 10 months ago (2 children)

That's nice, but $375 million, in US Military terms, is the equivalent of loose change between the cushions. We better send Ukraine a fat Christmas present.

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 9 points 10 months ago

We're planning on sending several billion in our extant weapon stocks, and disbursing a smaller but also 10 digit amount to purchase more weapons for Ukraine's use.

[+] TheAlbatross@lemmy.blahaj.zone 25 points 10 months ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (5 children)

[removed by mod]

[–] T00l_shed@lemmy.world 32 points 10 months ago (2 children)

The US didn't sign that treaty AFAIK. Not sure about Ukraine though.

[–] IrateAnteater@sh.itjust.works 24 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Also, can't commit war crimes if there's no war. And Russia says this isn't a war.

[–] catloaf@lemm.ee 21 points 10 months ago

I know you're being facetious, but they're considered war crimes even if it's not a full declared war.

[–] T00l_shed@lemmy.world 6 points 10 months ago

Special military operation crimes then!

[–] IndustryStandard@lemmy.world 5 points 10 months ago

Russia did declare it a war a while ago. They dropped the stupid military operation pretense.

[–] barsoap@lemm.ee 15 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Ukraine didn't, and neither did Russia.

It's like with incendiary weapons: Not war crimes as such, but for fuck's sake don't use them near civilians. Ultimately they're not doing anything that an artillery barrage couldn't do, including leaving unexploded ordinance around: When there's lots of soft targets you don't need all those explosions but only shrapnel so you can send a single shot and cause that shrapnel instead of twenty causing shrapnel and pointless explosions.

[–] mashbooq@lemmy.world 13 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Cluster munitions are bad when you're an invading army bc some of the explosives fail to fire, endangering civilians who come across them later. Ukraine, however, is using them on its own territory to combat russia who 1) is already using cluster munitions with a greater fail rate than the ones the US is providing Ukraine, and 2) deliberately mines the areas they invade in a way to kill civilians (e.g. setting up a mine to explode if you try to move the corpse of a beloved family dog). So in this case, using the US's cluster munitions to get russia out is a net positive.

[–] Badeendje@lemmy.world 6 points 10 months ago

Whereby there also videos from the first weeks where Russians left grenades as booby traps in kitchen cabinets and dishwashers?

[–] john89@lemmy.ca 8 points 10 months ago

Pretty sure the US is one of the few nations that never said they wouldn't use them.

[–] ShinkanTrain@lemmy.ml 5 points 10 months ago

Only if you care about civilians

[–] KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

the US is one of few nations that didn't sign that treaty, along with landmines.

We pretend it's ok by saying that we have high accuracy high precision cluster bombs. Though the ones getting to ukraine aren't, that entire place is also littered with minefields, so it makes no difference lmao.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

We pretend it’s ok by saying that we have high accuracy high precision cluster bombs.

Why would you want precise cluster bombs? The whole point of a cluster munition is to spread the effect over a broad area.

[–] KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

enemy troop trenches.

You can blast it shortly above the trench, accurate enough that a small amount of cluster munitions can explode killing the most people most effectively.

in some cases, this isn't advantageous, in the one atacms that ukraine sent over an airfield for example, having more clusters is obviously most important there.

Also i take it you know nothing about them so i'll expound upon my previous comment as i left out a few details. Modern US cluster munitions have individually targetting clusters. This means they can only detonate the actually important munitions, while leaving the rest as dead munitions, or even detonating in air to self destruct (still dangerous, but not as much) so you can kill a group of vehicles, without carpet bombing the rest of the area.

TL;DR more precise cluster bombs allow for using less cluster munitions, which means less collateral, and more damage for the given explosives. I.E. more effective weapon.

[–] KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 10 months ago (5 children)

good.

Now if only i could get IP people to realize that ukraine existed, maybe they could get the government to send those bombs to ukraine instead...

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago (2 children)

good.

Cluster bombs dropped across the country will be killing people decades after the war is over.

[–] AA5B@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago

https://www.csis.org/analysis/cluster-munitions-what-are-they-and-why-united-states-sending-them-ukraine

Dud rates vary from 2 percent to 40 percent, with U.S. submunitions on the lower end and Russian submunitions on the higher end. Duds act like landmines and can injure civilians

While everything to do with war is a varying amount of horrifying,

Ukrainians are desperate enough to choose to use them in their own country
they’re being given far more reliable munitions than what they’re already being attacked with

[–] KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 10 months ago

yeah, and so will russian landmines? Like, vastly more amounts of them will be vastly more problematic.

Cluster bombs are built to explode, in US cluster bombs, up to about 1% of them fail to detonate iirc. It's higher for russian bombs, upwards of 5% i think. Even if we're generous to cluster bombs, it's still just a tiny, tiny fraction of the probably hundreds of thousands of russian landmines that have been planted.

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