Single-use vapes should be illegal for waste reasons alone.
Yes - I was upset enough by throwing away the whole atomiser, never mind the whole device, battery, circuit boards and everything.
I use rebuildable atomisers now, so my e-cig waste is down to a 5cm bit of metal wire and a 4cm bit of cotton fluff every few weeks.
There was no reason for the disposable ones to ever exist.
And then you have the dumb fucks in Canada that have banned RTAs so you can't even buy cotton or wire in vape shops anymore. Have to order it online to keep my old RTA supplied.
The hassle of having to rebuild the atomizer, the danger of sub-ohm builds or shorts, the running of batteries below their safe limits causing damage that can lead to a failure, and fluid leaking are all good reasons for disposables.
What needs working on is how we manage the waste. You aren't suppose to throw them in the normal trash and not all places that sell disposables accept the used ones. My local vape shop just started collecting them as well as 18650 batteries and it is a step in the right direction, but there still is a lot of manual processing that needs to happen in order to recycle them adequately.
There needs to be convenience and incentive involved to motivate people into dealing with the waste appropriately. Like having every retailer be required to accept the waste and having a considerable exchange discount.
Reduce, Reuse, Recycle
Buying a "refillable" vape is sooo much better for you (you know specifically what you're putting into your body), your wallet and the environment.
Just don't buy a shit one and you'll be fine
You're right about the rebuildables actually, in terms of they're not for everyone - if you can't rewire a plug, maybe don't try and rewire an atomiser, but I'm pretty sure most people can at the very least screw a "top bit" onto a "bottom bit".
We did have ~8-10 years without disposable ones existing. Even if they need disposable atomisers and tanks to make things simple, there's no reason to throw the rechargeable battery in the bin.
Disposable cigalikes and other disposables have existed for ages. They were terrible, that is why tanks and rebuildables took off. Disposables have progressed along with the cloud arms race. Modern disposables still use the same tech as the old ones, they just made them bigger and have better flavors.
Break open a Blu from 2012 and compare it to a Posh, same thing.
There are no good reasons for disposables. If you can't make your own coils, use pods or clearomizers with pre-built coils. Your waste will be just a tiny coil with embedded cotton inside. That's like a bazillion times better than a disposable, while keeping all the "dangerous" stuff away.
I think drop in coils are a reasonable compromise between convenience/waste - the waste isn't very much and the coils I use last me a good long while (I vape MTL though so a coil can sometimes last me 2 months)
Yep. These single use vapes basically ruined the whole ecig industry...
Did you know that, in the UK, every year, there is enough lithium in all the disposable vapes that are used, to make 1200 electric car batteries?
The article claims 5000...
I was citing information in a Financial Times article from a few weeks ago. Not sure why the numbers are so different.
The future of vaping looks a lot like cigarettes https://on.ft.com/3sXmw3z
This is only a gift link so it wont last very long.
That seems pretty low
Sure, it could be, but it’s not my number.
Et tu Brute? (I'm a Californian just popping by)
Seriously though, fuck single use for environmental reasons.
Went from "vaping is 95% less harmful than smoking" to "ban it, think of the children" in only 5 years...
How much did the reversal cost Phillip Morris and RJR, do you suppose?
I mean this is specifically about disposable vapes, which never should have become a thing. They're possibly the most wasteful disposable item we've ever come up with.
It does seem like loads of kids vape these days, and rather openly as well.
Disposable vapes should be banned because of the waste, and they should do the blank packaging approach for vapes/vape juice.
Just because it’s better than smoking doesn’t mean it’s good, and nobody really knows the long term health effects.
We obviously know there are adverse long term effects, because you know, we're making the shit illegal all over the place...
Long term effects are a lack of yellow shit all over all your stuff and losses in tobacco tax and settlement revenue...
Not exclusively. Nicotine inhalation traditionally has been in combination with the rest of the chemicals and tar in cigarettes.
Personally... yes? I know some vapers who have been around in the industry for almost 20 years. I've heard reports around x-rays of older vapers coming out nearly the same as a nonsmoker.
The real enemy of nicotine inhalation seems to have more to do with what carries it rather than the nicotine itself.
There are absolutely cardiovascular impacts of chronic nicotine use that are independent of any lung issues you'd have from inhalation. That would be true of any drug, and we're well acquainted with the dangers of PAD and increased heart attack and strokes from nicotine use. It's a vasoconstrictor so that makes sense.
@roguetrick @thehatfox @aelwero @li10 @BlinkerFluid
Well, Peripheral arterial disease isn't, i think, from vasospasm.
And the effects you point to seem to be acute, rather than chronic.
The magnitude and frequency of effects are significant.
@roguetrick @thehatfox @aelwero @li10 @BlinkerFluid
If I were looking for subtle trouble, I'd look at the brain, which might be influenced in its development by a psychoactive chemical in childhood.
And at the wetware that runs on it.
Not at the chassis.
That was a fun read. How does it pertain to inhalation of nicotine via propelyne glycol and vegetable glycerin?
Oh, I actually thought I deleted this comment since I realized I didn't really know what I was talking about. But since it's here, and you took the time to read it; The question that went through my mind is "okay, I know that there's more to vaping/smoking than just nicotine, but what about chewing tabbaco? Isn't that nicotine that harms you without the additives from smoking/vaping?
I started with that article, but got lazy and didn't want to look into it further. Sorry for the confusion.
Chewing tobacco would also contain the carcinogens of tobacco resting in your mouth, causing cancer generally wherever it sits. The tobacco is still the delivery system for the nicotine. In the case of some snus, some are tobacco free, and are simply nicotine pouches that have soaked flavor and nicotine into them. Nicotine, like caffeine, vanillin, THC, can be extracted into its pure form from tobacco, removed from tobacco entirely and delivered in safer methods. This is the mindset behind vaping.
They talked about vaping as a concept. Like an RTA tank attached to a box mod. These single use vapes ruined the good rep of ecigs
I'm still rocking a $15 kato hammer clone I bought in 2014... "Box mod" made me laugh a little, I remember the MVP being the new hotness because it wasn't round :)
My first vape ever was a joye e-roll. I would absolutely not have switched over as easily as I did if the two options were convenient little cigarettes or a big honking 18650 mod. E-roll wasn't exactly a disposable, but that tiny little form factor was a big deal... a really big deal... it's what allowed me to switch.
Which is all to say that I have zero interest in disposables, same way I have zero interest in training wheels on a bicycle, but they aren't entirely without value.
Not much considering they've basically dipped toes into vaping rather than entire legs.
Most of the vaping industry is independent companies removed from the likes of the usual tobacco figureheads and single-use Vuse and Juul vapes(their brands) were fizzled out years ago.
PM and RJR do have their noses invested in some of those smaller companies, even Altria owned a chunk of Avail Vapor before they went to shit in the late 2010's.
but their investors tend to be more cautious than the "black market" or smaller vape industry of juice bottles, single-use vapes and box mods, and they don't touch Delta 8/10 vapes with a 39.5' pole.
Vaping may be a good alternative for a smoker. Some people find them a useful aid in quitting as it's easier to slowly reduce nicotine content.
It's is not contradictory to say vapes are bad. They can be better than cigarettes, but this doesn't make them good.
Vapes are highly palatable. This reduces a barrier to developing a nicotine addiction. So there genuine concern when it comes to young people developing nicotine addictions.
However, the motivation for this ban is due to the waste produced by disposable vapes. The early vapes were reusable so this wasn't an issue. These disposable vapes are responsible for alot of lithium batteries being irresponsibility disposed in the streets.
Nicotine on it's own isn't particularly addictive. It only becomes highly addictive when combined with the MAO inhibitors found in tobacco, primarily harman and norharman.
I'm intrigued, got any sources for this claim?
I searched for "nicotine addiction" and found a number of links to reputable bodies. I have put some of them above.
Some sources disagree with your claim.
Mayo Clinic
Nicotine dependence occurs when you need nicotine and can't stop using it. Nicotine is the chemical in tobacco that makes it hard to quit. Nicotine produces pleasing effects in your brain, but these effects are temporary. So you reach for another cigarette.
The more you smoke, the more nicotine you need to feel good. When you try to stop, you experience unpleasant mental and physical changes. These are symptoms of nicotine withdrawal.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/nicotine-dependence/symptoms-causes/syc-20351584
Centre for Addition and Public Health
In the past, it was believed that because nicotine does not cause intoxication or impairment, using tobacco was simply a bad habit, not an addiction. Today, nicotine is recognized as the very addictive drug found in tobacco products.
Nicotine dependence (also called tobacco addiction) involves physical and psychological factors that make it difficult to stop using tobacco, even if the person wants to quit.
https://www.camh.ca/en/health-info/mental-illness-and-addiction-index/nicotine-dependence
John Hopkins
Both e-cigarettes and regular cigarettes contain nicotine, which research suggests may be as addictive as heroin and cocaine. What’s worse, says Blaha, many e-cigarette users get even more nicotine than they would from a combustible tobacco product: Users can buy extra-strength cartridges, which have a higher concentration of nicotine, or increase the e-cigarette’s voltage to get a greater hit of the substance.
Christ, all that plastic shit.
Yeah I see these things littered absolutely everywhere and bins/benches/phone boxes are always pickled in the stickers. Can't believe they've been legal for this long.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Ministers are reportedly poised to ban single-use vapes, after a series of calls from councils, leading paediatricians and public waste campaigners to make selling the disposable devices illegal on health and environmental grounds.
It is due to be revealed in a consultation issued by the Department of Health and Social Care next week, though timings could alter, according to the Daily Telegraph.
Research by the not-for-profit organisation Material Focus said this amounted to eight vapes a second being discarded, with the lithium in the products enough to create 5,000 electric car batteries a year.
At the time, Prof Andrew Bush, a consultant paediatric chest physician at Royal Brompton and Harefield hospitals, said: “I am concerned that we are sleepwalking into a public health catastrophe with a generation of children hooked on nicotine.”
In July, MPs urged the government to introduce restrictions on the packaging and marketing of disposable vapes to tackle the alarming trend of children using these addictive products.
“That is why we launched a call for evidence to identify opportunities to reduce the number of children accessing and using vaping products – and explore where the government can go further.
The original article contains 481 words, the summary contains 192 words. Saved 60%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
You know… maybe getting addicted to nicotine isn’t such a clever idea on the first place?!?!
I've lived next to a high school for 10 years and it's only since the pandemic ended I've seen kids smoking vapes whilst walking to school. The expensive cost of fags had people on rollies but that too became expensive, change in age for consumption and general loss of it being available really cracked down on underage smoking.
Now I see vapes littering the school and blazen adverts for them in the local co op. It's ducking weird.
I do hope this works to stop kids developing/continuing nic habits. Environmental reasons as well of course but really ever since juul came out teen vaping has been ignored instead of dealt with.
However, I can't help but think of the days at my school of us smoking and hope kids won't just take that up instead - luckily it costs a bomb these days so they probably can't afford it (no idea what disposables cost but guessing not as expensive as proper cigarettes!)
As much as I hate disposable vapes I don't believe they should be banned as long as cigarettes are not.
One will fall back tonthe other if ine is banned.
I do wish they both get banned as they are polluting the earth and damaging health for no good reasons.
Disclaimer I am Canadian and do vape (refillable vape mod) I used to smoke up to 50 cigarettes a day. I wish I was capable of stopping vape now but it's hard.
I definitely agree with you about not making it attractive to kids. But vaping has increased by less than smoking has decreased. Kids who would otherwise experiment with cigarettes use vapes instead. Kids who got hooked on smoking use vapes to quit.
It's not an easy balance to strike. I'm not saying we should encourage kids to vape! But it's important not to lose sight of the prize. It's a much better option than smoking, and less addictive too.
For the avoidance of doubt, of course disposables should be banned. On environmental grounds alone but also because they're designed and marketed as impulse purchases for kids.
As a teacher, my concern is that our school went from a small group of about 10 smokers, to now just about every kid has a fancy colourful and flavourful disposable vape. It is crazy the sheer number of them. And the number of smokers has dropped significantly in the last 10 years as well.
I don't know if replacing the small number of smokers in the school for a huge number of vaping children is better, if I'm honest. The amount of them that are addicted to nicotine and energy drinks now is really quite scary.
Kids who got hooked on smoking use vapes to quit.
I'm not so sure about this. I don't have any sources but anecdotally it seems like a lot of kids have leaped into vaping without having ever smoked and have got nicotine habits. It began whenever Juul started marketing themselves as wanting to be the 'ipod of vaping' long ago and specifically targeted young people in the advertising despite what they might have said
Before then it wasn't a thing - it was adults who had found a way to stop smoking and were being left to do it in peace. I'll be proper annoyed if all this leads to me not being able to vape anymore because nothing else worked stopping me smoking. It's the lesser of two evils by a very long shot.
Imo you should have responsible licensed vape shops that sell these things, and I'd be fine with plain packaging - most of the stuff I get is pretty much in plain packaging already from vpz.
But if they ban disposables there's going to be an opening for a black market for dodgy stuff full of even more rubbish. Frankly, they should have done something about this a long time ago
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