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First contact when?
(lemmy.world)
First contact. Literally!
Unfortunately I'm on the side of: space is so unimaginably, incredibly, excessively, large that no other intelligent species is even remotely close enough to us to ever have the hopes of interacting with us. The best hope we have is finding "bacterial" life on another planet/moon here in the solar system.
Stupid physics... :(
That distance exists not only in space, but most likely time as well. Extrapolating from our singular data point, it would seem that the lifespan of a technological civilization is quite short. The odds of two of those being around at the right times for even one of them to detect the passing emission shell of the other is diminishingly small.
That and OUR ability to detect things is very, very limited. We're just barely getting to the point of using tricks to observe other planets' entire existence, let alone any animal on those planets.
Our perspective is certainly still too small to make any true determinations on the Fermi Paradox outside of ruling out some basic extremes.
Sorry, wrong comment
Even if they could reach us from some far-flung star system. There's no guarantee that we would be able to even communicate with them. For instance ants use pheromones to communicate. There's no way we could understand pheromones. We still can't talk to dolphins. The other problem, generally when a civilization comes in contact with a less evolved civilization they tend to wipe them all out.
Okay, but dolphins don't have writing or any other means of storing arbitrary information. If an alien had that capability, which they will if they are a civilization, things might be very different
Because we would live in a shared reality, if both species were to try to achieve communication, we would start out with something as simple as the basic building blocks of reality, like, say, the elements of the periodic table, to build out the foundation of communication. Then you would incorporate stuff like math and logic, and then it's downhill from there
There are ways to build up a system of communication even though the two sides are as different from each other as they can be, because ultimately, as we share the same reality, we have an objective basis to base our method of communication on. And that's all you need. It doesn't matter if we speak and they use odors, if we can both agree that hydrogen is hydrogen, and we can both perceive that we are in presence of hydrogen
Maybe we'll get the chance someday.
I think I've seen calculations that we could explore every star in the galaxy with self-replicating probes in something like a million years; and other civilizations could do the same.
Yes, they are a highly superior squid-like race that can travel through the vacuum of space without any spacecraft.
But how do they taste?
They taste like chicken.
Generally reminiscent of calamari. However if FTL fluid pouches are perforated during butchering, it can result in the flesh having hints of cherry or apricot with a splash of time dilation.
We recommend the less adventurous amongst you avoid the quantum entanglement seed pods as its certainly an acquired taste, akin to the flavors of lutefisk or durian. Overconsumption can cause unwanted side effects such as experiencing CMB-radiation flashes in your peripheral vision.
Please note that the tentacle like appendages are not suitable for human consumption as they contain high concentrations of element 166. Which is theorized to induce quantum tunneling at the macroscopic scale. May result in indeterminate teleportation to areas outside the observable universe or potentially other realities. Do not consume.
My thinking is that a technological species either goes into ecological overshoot so badly that it kills itself (or at least its capacity to conquer space) ((this is what we're doing currently)), or then it learns to live harmoniously as a functioning part of the wider planetary system, and thus has no need to spread into space.
3rd option: they want to explore
3rd Plus: Facehuggers in the cargo bay.
Space exploration necessitates a technological industrial civilization. So they/we would somehow have to figure out how to first do #2 (so as to not die), while still maintaining the industrial capacity to spread out into space. That sounds like an even more improbable subset of the already improbable scenario #2.
It's obvious that stars provide obscene, unimaginable amounts of energy. It's also clear that this energy can be captured and stored.
We, currently, can't exit our orbit without using oil, but that does not mean it's theoretically impossible.
Climate change is just one of six planetary boundaries that we've crossed, out of a total of nine. The choice of rocket fuel is largely inconsequential compared to the effects of maintaining the industrial capacity necessary for such endeavours.
Don't most rockets use hydrogen oxygen reaction? Separating hydrogen from oxygen requires only electricity, which we can produce renewably.
I think this misses 2 possibilities. The first one being the unlikely scenario where a species' space travel program outpaces the ecological collapse of their planet, necessitating a jump into an interplanetary civilization, and the second being the rarity of certain materials required for a technological civilization to continue to exist. The Rare Earth metals are so named because of their rarity on the planet, with most deposits being the result of meteorite impacts, and even things like iron only exist in finite quanities. There's been talk for years now of capturing asteroids in orbit around the planet for mining purposes and atmospheric "scooping" to harvest gases from the gravity wells of other planets for gases such as hydrogen.
Unless a civilization achieves 100% efficiency in a closed cycle of material use, they will need to look to the stars by necessity eventually.
#1: I doubt there would ever be a situation where those same resources wouldn't be better used to make things slightly less unbearable on the home world. In our case, even if we covered the world in poison and had an endless nuclear winter, Mars would still look like the worse planet to live on. It's doubtful whether or not a better one exists within any "practical" distance. If the aliens happened to have a lucky spawn in a star system with multiple habitable planets, good for them. They have another chance to figure things out. But interstellar flight (not to mention colonization) is still vastly more difficult.
#2: Exploiting the resources of the solar system is orders and orders of magnitude simpler than establishing self-sufficient colonies in uninhabitable space or planets. The show For All Mankind threw out most of any believability it had a while ago, but even there the entire fourth season revolved around the subject of how even a single asteroid full of rare earth metals would sate our hunger for such a long time as to effectively kill any initiatives to expand in space.
I think it’s a variant of #2: the ozone layer is much more susceptible to damage from space flight than we yet realize, and it’s a trade-off between keeping a hospitable home world and interstellar travel. By the time a species is scientifically advanced enough to be technologically capable of it, they learn the risks and decide it’s not worth it.
Lol, not the dark forest the bright asshole. How hilarious would it be if the universe was full of life but everyone thought we were assholes and were trying to avoid us.
I wrote a short story about that. The basic premise being all intelligent life is part of a concordium, and they monitor a planet when life is discovered to see if they're ready to join. But it took a disturbingly short period of time for them to determine we aren't fit. They said they'll quarantine our solar system and if we ever breach the boarders we'll be wiped out.
Not the best clip summarizing this episode, but South Park has a great take on this.
Is it anywhere you can share?
I thought i had it on my drive but apparently not.
The whole premise was on some rando day all screens with sound on earth (kinda live V), started broadcasting a message from the ambassador from the Concordium, and it's all one giant monologue from him. He just says that anytime they find advances, intelligent life in the galaxy they monitor them for roughly 11 of our years to ensure they're advanced enough and are able to exist within their structure and harmony. But it took less than 3 for them to determine we are not, cannot and never will functionally capable of it. One cited example is there at 10 individuals on the planet with enough wealth and resources to legitimately end hunger and poverty, and advance the civilization 100 years in maybe 10, but they'd rather burn the planet and let over 1/3 of the population suffer just to increase their already obscene wealth. Others include individuals damaging or killing themselves and others in displays of barbarism for mere entertainment, hate based on superficial features, and constant warring not towards the advancement of peace and prosperity but material goods and archaic resources that only further destroy the planet. As a result, our solar system is considered quarantined; they will not enter it, nor are we allowed to leave. If we attempt to they will eliminate us so we don't poison the rest of the galaxy as we have our own planet. Only twice have they encountered warring species similar to us, and both times their intention was to try and build advanced warships to conquer their way out of their solar system, but because of their nature they both ended up destroying themselves and their planets for control.
It ends with the transmission being cut, and the ambassador being asked if he thinks this could make humans unify and work towards the goal of bettering themselves to the point of being welcomed into the Concordium. He replies it has never happened in their recorded history
This is probably the number one reason I'd be giddy about it.
Our species desperately needs to learn some humility. We're literally destroying our only habitat out of blind arrogance and greed.
If they didn't come in peace. We're boned, and everyone's problems are over.
If they did, at some point they're still going to need to use corrective action on our arrogant monkey asses.
Because all human history.
As an adult, it's the biggest plothole in Trek to me. Species so far ahead of us taking our lead only a couple hundred years after we took a break bombing each other and managed to cobble together a single, shitty warp drive a Vulcan toddler could probably improve the design of at a casual glance. If there was a consortium of species, at our stage we'd correctly need to beg to get provisional Jr. membership after 1,000 years of probationary observation.
They really shouldn't take us until our species agrees to stop letting people starve while others grow obese just to get the fat sucked out of them to do it again.
That's why I really like the Mass Effect universe where humanity is more of an underdog species. Same with Babylon 5.
Obesity isn't a social inequality problem, except in the sense that obese people are more likely to be poor, and to suffer obesity due to stress, poor nutrition, and addiction. Obese people are not oppressing anyone. If you want to talk about food waste while people starve, then talk about the corporations throwing perfectly good food in dumpsters that they put a padlock on to stop homeless people from dumpster diving.
Sure, obesity was a sign of privilege and oppression 200 years ago, before modern agricultural practices such as the use of pesticides and heavy machinery. These days, there isn't too little food, there's too much. Starvation isn't a problem of natural scarcity, and certainly not a problem of people eating too much. It's a product of artificial scarcity, wherein good food is thrown away because people can't pay for it. Your political theory is two centuries out of date. It's time to stop hating fat people.
But you can see obese people being obese and they are small so that makes them an easier target of scapegoating than the big company that wastes food out of sight.
Plus they making excess food compared to what they can sell locally doesn't mean it's suddenly magically cheap to get that food to the places it's needed.
Sure, China can finance it's global distribution if cheap good, but that'd be communism and we don't want to resort to that to help people. Better just leave that to private charity. So they can individually be less effective even considering the best intentions (it's never the best intentions).
This is just posadism
Well they did say that most governments were wiped out in WW3 so that probably had a big impact on why
BRB, gotta go kill a few billion organisms.
moves toe
Well yeah, hitting things with sticks is in our nature.
To be fair, humans have prevented the looming extinction of horses (their numbers were dwindling a couple thousand years ago, cause they were being outcompeted by bovines who can process grass more efficiently due to their multiple stomachs).
Horses, cows, chickens, dogs, cats, rice and wheat have spread all over the globe due to humans.
So purely from an evolutionary standpoint, being a slave or food for humans is the best thing you can do as an organism.
I am kinda hearing what you are saying, but it also sounds quite depressing.
Related video from an astrophysicist that covers this concept in-depth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tw0aqmnmaw
this post was submitted on 05 Sep 2024
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