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I do appreciate that the Lemmy Doctor Who communities are less prone to wild fan speculation and continuity semantics rabbit holes, I really do. Sometimes, though, I dip back onto the main subreddits, and boy, do they get into massive circle jerks over little things that only jar others slightly.

Having exposed myself to the fandom mind virus, but refusing to join the fray on Reddit, I'll just infodump my own head canon explanations to (apparently controversial) occurrences in the latest season of the show here:

Is the Shalka Doctor now unredacted from continuity?

In the episode "Rogue", holograms of the Doctor's past selves loop around 15 like an old iTunes cover gallery. One of them is clearly Richard E Grant, who played ~~the~~ a ninth Doctor in "Scream of the Shalka". The animated series was short-lived and written out of the show's canon when the 2005 revival show introduced Eccleston as the "authoritative" ninth Doctor.

IRL explanation: Russell T Davies thought it would be fun to throw in Grant's face in the line-up. There's probably not more to it.

My in-universe explanation: The eighth Doctor actually regenerated into the Shalka Doctor, but because the Time War happened and rewrote timelines several times over, 8's eventually solidified upon the events of "Night of the Doctor", where he instead regenerates into the War Doctor.

However, time being relative, the Shalka Doctor is still extant if only as a wisp of an individual timeline, because a) he is a time traveler and therefore a complex temporal event not easily erased, and b) the Time War left the time stream in such a disarray that he may exist in a state of flux (no, not that one), and either continues adventuring as an offshoot of the Doctor's timeline, or is suspended in some kind of quantum field just slightly removed from it.

Pretty handwavy, yes, but all of Who continuity sort of requires you to gesture wildly like the eleventh Doctor having a thought, just for it to make some sort of sense.

The Doctor "was a dad", but 15 "hasn't had children yet"?!

In "The legend of Ruby Sunday", the fifteenth Doctor talks about his granddaughter Susan, who traveled with the first Doctor in the early years of the show. He then pivots to saying that he hasn't had children yet.

This is despite several if not all NuWho Doctors having referred in some form to having been a dad β€” including 15, just a few episodes earlier, in "Boom"! So which is it?

IRL explanation: As above, Russell T Davies likes to throw in non sequitur comments and details that mess with people's understanding of the show's lore. On a positivist note, it keeps that lore dynamic and throws some mysteries out for himself or subsequent writers to glom onto, like the Morbius Doctors or "half human on my mother's side" of the past. If it doesn't stick, ignore it.

My in-universe explanation: Ignoring the extended universe here, we don't know a lot about the Doctor's life previous to "An unearthly child", and nearly none about their family relations. What we do know is that they are a very prolific time traveler, and as witnessed from 11 and 12's relationship with River Song, things tend to get complicated, and invariably nonlinear.

With that in mind, it's perfectly feasible that 15 or a future incarnation has a child (the birds and bees part, or possibly looms?) that, for whatever reason, they leave for their previous, Hartnell self to raise (be a father to). Heck, given the above Shalka Doctor explanation, he could be the father, and 15 would be off the hook. Exactly what can we assume about a Time Lord's sense of self when alternative timelines come into play?

Along with the Doctor's realization that they are an "adopted" Timeless Child, as well as Ruby's search for her bio-mum in the past season, this explanation plays nicely into the twin notions of parenthood as giving life to a child versus raising it. Add to this that the Doctor's relationship to his companions (post-Susan) have always been stories of found and/or extended family.

It all makes sense when you (don't) think (too hard) about it!

So there you have it, the Doctor Who Reddit post to end all Doctor Who Reddit posts, deliberately not posted to Reddit. The important TL;DR is, time is in flux, several things can be true at the same time, and don't break your mind thinking about a TV show.

Anything else that needs explaining?

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[-] ValueSubtracted@startrek.website 3 points 2 months ago

It all makes sense when you (don’t) think (too hard) about it!

You need to trademark this and license it to the BBC ASAP.

[-] halm@leminal.space 2 points 2 months ago

LOL, thanks for the business advice πŸ™‚

I know you're not keen on this kind of content, but I thought it was worth spreading a bit of fan nerdery across the Who Lemmy communities that I'm aware of. It might at least spread the word about this one to the rest of the ~~fans~~ viewers on here, maybe generate enough traffic that you'll have to revive the episode retrospectives πŸ˜„

[-] ValueSubtracted@startrek.website 1 points 2 months ago

I struggle to put my feelings on speculation into words. Obviously, it has its place, and there would be something very wrong with the show if we didn't feel the urge to speculate about where the story is headed.

I think it's runaway speculation that spawns ridiculous conspiracy theories that really irks me, if that makes sense.

[-] halm@leminal.space 2 points 2 months ago

Oh yes, that makes sense. I hope I went the opposite way with my post here πŸ™‚

[-] halm@leminal.space 2 points 2 months ago

If I could CW this it would be for "Wall of text". Sorry about the long read!

[-] MajorHavoc@programming.dev 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

I love this analysis.

I have a thought on the "Dad" thing:

First, of course, "The Doctor Lies" certainly applies.

But also, he was being a kind of honest, in that context.

The Doctor was talking to an abandoned child. Ruby was (in her heart) really asking whether the Doctor has managed to be a loving stable present father to someone.

We all pretty much know they haven't ever done that. The closest was probably Susan, and the "grandfather" thing always added some distance, whatever their real relationship was. Or Ace, or Dave, who always called them "Professor".

Edit: I love your reconciliation for the Shaka doctor. It's a fun series, and it ought to get crammed back into he canon somewhere.

And I like that we both got the vibe that the Doctor answered Ruby's real question, even though the answer was a lie on the surface.

[-] halm@leminal.space 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

In all honesty, I think "the Doctor lies" is used too often as a catch-all for ambiguity in the show. It's River's line throughout her story, but who tells her first, in "Let's kill Hitler"? The Doctor πŸ˜† So is that the ultimate lie, or can we as viewers pick and choose when we want his statements to be lies?

I don't think there is a word of a lie about his dadhood here. He isn't a father* yet, but he has raised children (and probably Susan too?) πŸ™‚

* Edit: "biological father"

[-] MajorHavoc@programming.dev 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

In all honesty, I think "the Doctor lies" is used too often as a catch-all for ambiguity in the show.

I completely agree.

He isn't a father* yet,

I was counting "The Doctor's Daughter", even though he doesn't raise her.

but he has raised children (and probably Susan too?)

Yeah. Susan was pretty young, if I recall correctly, in The Dalek Invasion of Earth

Though even there, the Doctor is already a terrible parent.

this post was submitted on 01 Sep 2024
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