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[Video] Kamala Harris's staunch support for Israel (x.com)
submitted 3 months ago by dessalines@lemmy.ml to c/palestine@lemmy.ml
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[-] CrypticCoffee@lemmy.ml 10 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

No matter how bad she is, she's against a guy who tried to recognise Jerusalem as the sole capital of Israel.

These Dem's are poor, these Republicans are horrific. Discrediting Kamala only serves to reduce Dem turnout and increase likelihood of a Trump win. Do you really want that?

Trash her after the election, we do not have time for this now.

Oh, and sharing x content, and driving traffic there, to a website who's owner is supporting the capitalist class is hardly beneficial to anyone.

[-] dessalines@lemmy.ml 17 points 3 months ago

Trash her after the election, we do not have time for this now.

Relevant MLK quote:

I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to 'order' than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice [...]

[-] CrypticCoffee@lemmy.ml 7 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Very different context there. I'd much prefer a Bernie (minus the Israel stance) or an AOC, but some points in history call for pragmatism. I'm a Brit anyway, so not really my circus.

I'd like to hear what you think is right in the current situation. Throwing quotes and platitudes without serious discussion of the options is a shallow discussion.

You prefer Trump or Kamala? Do you genuinely see another option? I hardly see the overthrowing of the capitalist class is happening in the next 4 months. What do you think is best for the Palestinian cause, Kamala or Trump?

Plus, Kamala in the vid is talking to AIPAC, in a very different context. What do you genuinely expect a politician to say?

[-] technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 3 months ago

Plus, Kamala in the vid is talking to AIPAC, in a very different context. What do you genuinely expect a politician to say?

I would expect a decent person not to engage with a genocidal regime. But I wouldn't expect anything from a politician.

[-] sparkle@lemm.ee 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

I mean discouraging voting for her doesn't actually do any good unless we do a revolution or something. I recognize that not voting just threatens the rights of Americans in marginalized/vulnerable groups while doing nothing positive for Palestinians unless you count virtue signaling. Losing security in their votes doesn't make them move leftwards. This isn't going to change even if every leftist in the US refuses to vote blue, we're just a tiny group in comparison to centrists. More people would be leftists if we had actually good education, but...

""Moderates"" are scum of the Earth but we didn't build up to the Civil Rights act by sabotaging the less bad people. We would still have segregation and pretty much no women's rights if we just stopped voting until we had candidates with modern views on sex and race in a fundamentally sexist and racist America. We don't live in a functioning democracy, so you have to make decisions within the framework of a dysfunctional democracy. Democrats, at the very least, decrease disenfranchisement and improve access to education & healthcare (especially for underprivileged groups), so consistently voting for them guarantees we can vote for a better choice in the future. I've already experienced one Trump presidency, and he has far more sinister plans for the next one, so I have no reason to let him win.

Also this is unrelated, but thumb-key is great, you're awesome for doing work on that 👍

[-] PanArab@lemmy.ml 3 points 3 months ago

In 2020 I knew Biden was a Zionist, a racist, a warmonger and his issues page was anti-Arab and anti-Palestinian. But I was told Trump will be worse, so I begrudgingly voted for him and got a genocide.

The same playbook cannot work again for Kamala Harris and I don’t think I am the only one who feels this way.

[-] averyminya@beehaw.org 1 points 3 months ago

Do you feel that the genocide would have been avoided had Trump won 2020? Because he told Israel to "finish the problem".

For some odd reason I have a feeling we would be in an even worse situation, with no opportunity for a ceasefire.

[-] PanArab@lemmy.ml 1 points 3 months ago

At worst, I think it wouldn’t have made a difference. The genocide is happening now under Biden with no opportunity for a ceasefire. Biden is unconditionally supporting Israel politically and militarily, sent them thousands of tonnes of bombs, and the US vetoed a UN ceasefire multiple times and voted against Palestinian statehood. Everything he has done is what Trump would have done in the worst case scenario.

[-] averyminya@beehaw.org 1 points 3 months ago

I dunno, I feel like Palestinians on U.S. soil would have been in far more danger with Trump as president. Just given the events of all the hate crime directed towards people of color during 2020.

[-] PanArab@lemmy.ml 0 points 3 months ago

If the options are:

  1. Helplessly watch a genocide
  2. Helplessly watch a genocide and perhaps also suffer one yourself

It is far more honorable and dignified to take option 2.

[-] averyminya@beehaw.org 1 points 3 months ago

... That makes it sound like Palestinians all over the world should be killed because of Israel.

I strongly disagree if that's the case. It is a good thing that U.S. citizens are on the side of Palestinians, even if our government hasn't been successful in calling for a ceasefire, I cannot possibly see how having a president actively siding against Palestine would be good. Trump told Israel to finish the problem. It is that simple.

[-] averyminya@beehaw.org 1 points 3 months ago

Regardless of everything, I appreciate having this conversation with you. There's a lot of facets to these issues and the genocide of Palestine is close to home, as is the hate crime experienced during 2016. There is rarely an easy solution, and as a result often times it comes down to seemingly irreconcilable ideologies. I feel that humanitarianism is how we can bridge the gap, but of course that requires the ideology to be willing to accept something. Hence the intolerance of the intolerant.

For what it's worth, like there is no good Nazi, I genuinely feel there is no good Zionist, as the ideology inherently holds a false assumption (probably a better word can be used) used to perpetuate the belief. So, I hope you can understand my statements as coming from a place of wanting change to be an option, rather than as dismissal of Israel's genocide.

The United States education system In 2016 was given one goal with the appointment of Betsy DeVoss (sister to Erik Price of Black Water) as the Secretary of Education, to dismantle the education system. They succeeded, and it has only just started to turn around. The EPA gone for 4 years. The role of government severely diminished its ability to work for its citizens in so many places. So to destroy our ability to govern under a conservative government seems to not align with our goals, as not only do they supply even more weapons for war, have hateful rhetoric against our ally (citizens ally, Palestine), all while losing the growth of American citizens to me, seems like a surefire way to make sure Israel is never stopped.

By bolstering education, bolstering our ability to govern and make change, which bolsters the citizens ability to have meaningful votes - that is how we stop Israel.

Not by abstaining and letting it all fail. By doing everything we can to make sure that progress is made, and we cannot let perfect be the enemy of progress else no progress will ever be made. The only way that I personally see Palestine being safe is by making sure the people we have the opportunity to vote in feel the same way you and I do. And that, historically, cannot happen with Trump as president.

[-] PanArab@lemmy.ml 0 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

I didn’t know Trump was president right now. How can you pretend that Biden and Harris don’t want the same thing even if they are more tacit and political in their messaging? Their actions lead to the exact same outcome.

If you want to vote for Harris knock yourself out. I’m trying to explain my point of view which you refuse to understand by pretending that Trump is the current president.

This is what your beloved cunt released recently:

This is reducible to Trump’s “finish the job”, just in a politer way.

[-] averyminya@beehaw.org 1 points 3 months ago

This has been our discussion the whole time. You mentioned 2020, I said you really think it would be better under Trump. At no point did I imply that he was current president, my point the whole time has been that Trump's rhetoric would be far worse for Palestinians on U.S. soil and abroad. There would be no discussion of ceasefire. There would be far more death in the world happening, and it would be lauded by Trump and his voters.

Instead we have a huge swathe of citizens appalled by the actions of Biden with a huge amount of support for Palestine. Furthermore, unfortunately a President is more than one policy, so while I may vote for Kamala when the time comes, it will be for her environmental policies, not for her stance towards Israel. Believe me, I am dismayed. I'm from Oakland, I know what she has done. At the same time, she cares for the education system, the environment, and for all of the other things our country is massively failing in when it was thrown under the bus in 2016.

To say that Biden's Presidency has been the worst thing for Palestinians seems inaccurate solely because the citizens of the U.S. desperately want to help. We also desperately do not want Trump again, nor to have to deal with the people who vote for him. How can we reconcile that? It seems most have accepted that the ability to vote for people who can make change eventually is better than voting for someone who has actively removed LGBT and PoC politicians from holding office (or have removed themselves for fear of their own safety which is really the same thing).

It makes no sense to watch our country fall to ruin in government while the same happens to Palestine in war. When it does, then we really can't help at all, because the people in power will only be supplying weapons of mass destruction and the "lip service" of discussing ceasefires are a thing of the past. We have to have nuance in these situations, else we commit even more atrocities without ever having even a small chance of rectifying it. To me, this isn't just about the President, as they are just one figurehead that is most public. It's about the cabinet and our government as a whole and their ability to functionally serve.

In addition to the statement you posted, I also recently read a report that some 70% of U.S. citizens are demanding a ceasefire, and some 90% of those in government are against it. Well guess what, that percentage won't ever change if we don't vote, and it will change even less if a conservative government like Trump's comes back, given that he singlehandedly decimated our civil servants (with a strong quarter of those positions still gone today). To have a government that doesn't serve it's people is a failing of the United States. To have a government where the citizens cannot even vote in future elections is no longer a democratic republic.

[-] technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 3 months ago

I've been trashing her since before she was VP because she's trash. Not gonna stop now.

this post was submitted on 22 Jul 2024
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