205
Because NATO has never accepted applicants with active territorial disputes.
Yes this is one of the reasons Russian trolls talking points of NATO expansion fears motivating Russia to invade whiffed of bullshit from the beginning. By annexing Crimea Russia already made them ineligible.
Well,
in 2018 Ukraine voted to enshrine the goal of NATO membership in the Constitution. source
At the June 2021 Brussels summit, NATO leaders reiterated the decision taken at the 2008 Bucharest summit that Ukraine would eventually join NATO.
Is "dispute" really the right word? Lol
Yes because it started years before the war with the annexation of Crimea.
The war started with the annexation of Crimea. It has been going on since 2014.
This is purely semantics, but neither side had launched a full scale invasion in the years following the annexation until 2022.
Russia launched an invasion in 2014 that took Crimea and created two "independent" "republics" that are backed by Russia and are fighting Ukraine still. Stop spreading misinformation about the conflict.
Read the Nemtsov report https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Putin._War
On August 15, Aleksandr Zakharchenko, Prime Minister of the self-proclaimed DPR, stated that a reinforcement that came from Russia played a decisive role in the counter-offensive: "(There were) 150 units of combat armor, including about 30 tanks - the rest were AIFVs (Armored Infantry Fighting Vehicles) and APCs (Armored Personnel Carriers), and also 1,200 personnel who had undergone training during four months in the territory of the Russian Federation." Zakharchenko emphasized, "They were inserted here at the most critical moment." The decisive role played by the reinforcements arriving from Russian territory was confirmed in an interview in the newspaper “Zavtra” by the former33 DPR Minister Igor Girkin (aka Strelkov). The shifting of the front and in particular the deployment to Mariupol were achieved, in his words, "largely by vacationers, individual units of the militia which were subordinate to them.” "Vacationers" in Girkin's terminology are Russian military cadres who come to the territory of Ukraine with weapons in their hands but who are officially “on vacation.”
Vyacheslav Tetekin, a Russian State Duma deputy and a member of the Committee for Defense, estimated the number of "volunteers" who had taken part and were continuing to take part in combat actions in the Donbass to be 30,000 people. "Some fought a week there, some fought for several months, but according to the information of the authorities of the Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republics themselves, approximately 30,000 volunteers have gone through 4 9 combat," he emphasized. This same deputy submitted for State Duma review a draft law on conferring upon "volunteers" the status of participants 50 in combat with all the relevant benefits.
This is a sizable invasion too. Smaller, but enough to become a war https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Donbas--
If that is your definition of war then the USA is at war with Russia. I'm not denying that Russia is responsible for all of this and a warmongering state, but to say it's exactly the same now as it was 8 years ago is very silly.
I wrote that it is a smaller invasion, but sizeable enough to constitute an invasion and a war, I absolutely did not say that it is the same now as it was 8 years ago, don't strawman.
What are you saying again? That it is not a war if it is not large enough to be on the headlines you read every day? Because western media made a conscious effort to look the other way to avoid getting dragged into a conflict with russia for a country that had hardly an army to defend itself in 2014. If there were 30000 americans doing tours in Ukraine, you'd know. But there aren't even any foreign fighters of any kind inside russia, so that is no reason to think the USA is at war with russia, there is no analogy whatsoever with sending troops to Ukraine to back up the russian separatists. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-russia-soldiers/some-12000-russian-soldiers-in-ukraine-supporting-rebels-u-s-commander-idUSKBN0LZ2FV20150303/
I really don't get your point unless you're trying to be a russian troll.
I'm saying that it was a territorial dispute before it was a war, which was why Ukraine was not allowed to join NATO even before the war.
If I were a Russian troll I wouldn't be shitting all over them in every single comment.
Are you having a seizure or something? Maybe you meant to respond to somebody else?
I made my case. Read the sources, make up your mind, debate with your peers, what else do you want, to play flame war?
Case against what, exactly?
A year? Feckless Americans holding back statements again, it seems. Europe is certainly in for the long haul. Also plenty of countries not ruling out boots on the ground. In fact the US not having a clear stance of "you use tactical nukes we're going to put them onto Ukrainian soil" or similar is yet another instance of fecklessness.
You may think yourself smart and strategic but in the end you're a salami, sitting there motionless, being sliced.
The US can't commit to more than a year. Even a year we might break that promise. You gotta remember, we have an election in November. If trump wins, there's no telling what bullshit he might do. He might even just nuke Ukraine.
You gotta remember, half of the USA is on russia's side.
Ukraine is not a whipping boy and yet NATO seems to think it is.
If Ukraine had been allowed to keep their nuclear weapons none of this would be going on at all.
Ukraine could have kept its nuclear weapons... but Ukraine did not have proper leadership that could maintain such posture. These people would/could not run the state efficiently enough to fund a nuclear weapons program since they were mostly Russian plants looting the country. Corruption over national security has consequences... people need to hold their leaders accountable for their blunders.
They couldn't have kept the weapons. They were being guarded by Russian soldiers, and Ukraine never had the activation codes. They got the best deal they could giving the USSRs nukes back to Moscow, rather than risking Moscow blowing them up in-situ. Moscow threatened that at one point during the talks.
this post was submitted on 06 Jul 2024
205 points (97.7% liked)
World News
39041 readers
2473 users here now
A community for discussing events around the World
Rules:
-
Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
- Post news articles only
- Video links are NOT articles and will be removed.
- Title must match the article headline
- Not United States Internal News
- Recent (Past 30 Days)
- Screenshots/links to other social media sites (Twitter/X/Facebook/Youtube/reddit, etc.) are explicitly forbidden, as are link shorteners.
-
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
-
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
-
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
-
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
-
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
-
Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
-
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
Lemmy World Partners
News !news@lemmy.world
Politics !politics@lemmy.world
World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world
Recommendations
For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/
- Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS