submitted 10 months ago by YoTcA@feddit.de to c/privacyguides@lemmy.one

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At the moment I am thinking about getting a new phone in the foreseeable future. I was long time using android, but switched to iOS 5 years ago because of the longer update period. Now also some android devices offer a longer update support of about 5 years. Now I am thinking about switching back to android.

But i am wondering: is there any big difference from a privacy perspective between iOS and android? I know you can go for custom roms on android that are focused on privacy which i also used in the past, but i am not planning on doing this in the future. So it would come down to stock android vs stock iOS. Any advice there or is all lost anyway?

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[-] jet@hackertalks.com 39 points 10 months ago

Just for FDroid and the open source programs alone I would stick with android. Watching YouTube without ads, my own browser with an adblocker....

Stock Android versus stock iOS, stock iOS is more hardened, more secure. But it's a more restrictive walled garden. So it depends what your criteria of privacy is. If you have an iCloud account, and you enable end to end encryption, and you trust Apple then it's better than stock Android.

[-] tux0r@feddit.de 10 points 10 months ago

Watching YouTube without ads, my own browser with an adblocker…

Both are well possible on an iPhone.

[-] jet@hackertalks.com 8 points 10 months ago

Do tell...

My understanding is iOS requires all browsers to use web kit.

And there is no open source repository on iOS, so how are you watching YouTube without ads?

[-] pjol@lemm.ee 9 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

how are you watching YouTube without ads?

My controversial way (probably will be downvoted) is with Premium to support content creators i enjoy.

But to answer your question; My understanding is Brave Browser (despite WebKit) and AdGuard with Safari also removes ads.

[-] biscuits@lemmy.sdfeu.org 2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Well, I'd say to support content creators directly if they provide such option rather than through YouTube ads or YouTube Premium. I think that even donating 1$ one time is more that channel would have earned from like thousand of your views.

[-] NightAuthor@beehaw.org 3 points 10 months ago

CPM on tech, finance, and health (a lot of what I watch) is often $5-10. And apparently google pays creators even more than that rate for premium viewers.

Even so, direct payment is likely to be more profitable to creators than just watching ads or having premium.

But even as a technical person, I’ve never really been interested in finding ways to block ads on my PC, MacBook, iPhone, Android (when I had one), and Roku/AppleTV. And potentially having to keep up with the apparently changing landscape of YouTube adblocker a for each. Sounds like a pain in the ass. I’d rather just pay for family premium, and easily share the benefits with my mom, sister, & wife without having to offer technical support for their ad blocking.

[-] biscuits@lemmy.sdfeu.org 2 points 10 months ago

Yeah, in my case it's really easy, just like the other commenter said. Some time ago I've been configuring new laptop for my mom. I just installed Firefox with uBlock Origin with default settings and I don't think she has ever seen YouTube ads.

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[-] privacyfalcon9899@lemmy.one 8 points 10 months ago

https://github.com/yattee

[-] Version@feddit.de 7 points 10 months ago

Safari on iOS supports extensions out of the box. You can just install adguard or something else and won‘t have any ads.

There are also third party browsers, which yes, use WebKit, but also can block ads.

[-] tux0r@feddit.de 4 points 10 months ago

My understanding is iOS requires all browsers to use web kit.

Yes, but... - anyway, what exactly would a different rendering engine improve for your experience?

how are you watching YouTube without ads?

Vinegar exists.

[-] priapus@sh.itjust.works 24 points 10 months ago

If you're not willing to flash a rom, then it comes down to trusting Apple or Google more. Although, android also has the benefit of a much larger selection of open source utilities that you can easily install from F-Droid. This is enough for me to prefer even stock Android over iOS, because 99% of the apps on my android phone are open source and I feel I can trust them fully.

[-] dingleberry@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Custom ROM scene is too sketchy. People install random shit on their phones, eyes wide shut. I'd suggest sticking with Pixel phones. You can use Google's flash station to install aosp roms if you so desire, it's safer than whatever is out there on XDA forums.

[-] priapus@sh.itjust.works 2 points 10 months ago

There are plenty of trustworthy ROMs out there. Idk who is installing them from XDA forums, but i'm certainly not.

[-] tux0r@feddit.de 19 points 10 months ago

Android is primarily sponsored and advertised by Google, which is basically the world's largest advertising company that also happens to have an IT department.

iOS is exclusively sponsored and advertised by Apple, which is basically a large IT company that makes most of its money with rather expensive hardware.

One of those is a wiser choice if you care about your privacy.

[-] ArbiterXero@lemmy.world 25 points 10 months ago

I own an iPhone because Google is evil but….

Make no mistake, Apple has developed their own advertising id and they’re starting to use it to track you just like Google.

In theory it’s more private, but in practice it’s hard to say for sure.

[-] Yendor@sh.itjust.works 12 points 10 months ago

A few massive differences:

You opt-in to targeted tracking with Apple. It’s impossible to opt-out with Google. Apple also enforces per-app opt-in for tracking.
Apple use your data, but they don’t sell it on
Apple features protect you from 3rd party tracking at a software level (Private Relay) and hardware level (MAC randomisation)

[-] ArbiterXero@lemmy.world 10 points 10 months ago

Oh listen I TOTALLY believe that it’s better, that’s why I have the iPhone.

HOWEVER, most of these points are what Apple tells me, not verified by a third party research team, so there’s a grain of salt to go along with the statements

[-] YoTcA@feddit.de 3 points 10 months ago

So hoping apple is not selling my data, because they make enough money with their hardware sales?

This is at least a big difference in the business models of the two companies. Thanks for the input!

What I struggle a little to understand: How does the add business of google affect my privacy? Is not google also collecting the data for internal use only? If they would sell the data, everybody could also target adds like they do. As I understand it they sell add placement and allow the buyer to target a specific group of people, but without selling the data they used to create the profiles. Or am I mixing something up?

[-] tux0r@feddit.de 4 points 10 months ago

So hoping apple is not selling my data, because they make enough money with their hardware sales?

More or less, yes. Because they don't need the money.

How does the add business of google affect my privacy?

Google's whole business model is selling your private data. Or which product did you buy from them?

[-] huginn@feddit.it 14 points 10 months ago

Because they don't need the money.

Until investors start throwing a fit when number doesn't go up every year for all eternity.

Make no mistake: your data is just as sellable by Apple as anyone else.

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[-] loudWaterEnjoyer@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 10 months ago

You understood capitalism

[-] Vinegar@kbin.social 15 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Check out the Fairphone 4/5 running /e/OS. To get a "stock" phone that comes degoogled and ready to use, no tinkering required, you can buy a phone directly from the makers of /e/OS/: Murena

[-] Lemongrab@lemmy.one 6 points 10 months ago

/e/os is often multiple versions behind for their forked apps, including vulnerabilities. Not a good choice from what ive seen. A dev for divestos cataloged the problems iirc

[-] YoTcA@feddit.de 2 points 10 months ago

The announcement of the Fairphone 5 was the starting point of my doubts to just get the next iPhone :D. First android phone with a really long promised update duration that I am aware of. Thanks for the tip with eos, will check it out.

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[-] Lemjukes@lemm.ee 15 points 10 months ago

People really like to crap on apple for reasons justified and not. But when it comes to privacy there's a pretty clear difference in the track records for Google and Apple. Here are some articles that might be worth a read in helping you decide. Really what it boils down to is what matters most to you. Apple may have the better privacy record, but it also locks you into a garden with very high walls. Google/android architecture may be a lot more versatile and provide more hardware options and customizability, but they will harvest and sell every scrap of data they can get their hands on.

https://9to5mac.com/2022/08/25/apple-collect-less-data-than-other-companies/

https://www.tomsguide.com/face-off/iphone-vs-android

https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/ios-vs-android/

https://www.techradar.com/news/google-photos-vs-icloud

[-] beppi@sh.itjust.works 13 points 10 months ago

There's only one phone that runs GrapheneOS so that's the one I get. If you're looking at stock phones, apple is the best for privacy and security, but if you really care about those two things you're probably not just looking at them stock

[-] JurassicPork@lemmy.one 10 points 10 months ago

I second graphene, I grabbed a pixel 6 about a year ago. Flashed graphene after first boot, and have never looked back! Fast, private, light, bleeding edge security updates, storage scopes, etc etc.

[-] YoTcA@feddit.de 7 points 10 months ago

Sounds nice. Had any problems with banking apps and authenticatiors? If I remember correctly they sometimes made problems with custom ROMs (at least 5-8 years ago when I last used them 😅)

Feels kind of ironic that you need to get a pixel phone, made by google, to get rid of google.

[-] JurassicPork@lemmy.one 2 points 10 months ago

No issues with banking apps!!! Not for me at least, bootloader gets relocked when installing graphene, I used to maintain a ROM for the s4 back in the day, and knows it was a pain with banking apps due to safetynet I think it was. And ya super ironic its a google phone 😂

[-] beppi@sh.itjust.works 2 points 10 months ago

With Australian banks there doesn't seem to be any problems, if you don't install gplay, you won't get notifications though. However I think there were some issues with other countries' banks, but there's a list somewhere on the GrapheneOS forums/GitHub for all tested banks.

It really does, but unfortunately they simply have the most secure hardware of android phones. At least you're just paying for the hardware, but don't have to continue paying with your privacy (or pack of) if you get Graphene

[-] c0mmando@links.hackliberty.org 4 points 10 months ago

GrapheneOS is the best.. there are no comparisons

[-] LilDestructiveSheep@lemmy.world 11 points 10 months ago

Some phones can have GrapheneOS.

I made the switch to Pixel last year and I can tell you that the ads on it are far more precise than on iPhone.

FDroid and Open Source are good.

[-] TheMusicalFruit@lemmy.world 10 points 10 months ago

While Apple isn’t perfect, history has shown that they take privacy more seriously than Google.

[-] Asudox@lemmy.world 7 points 10 months ago

If you are a normal user that just wants a bit privacy and no excessive amount of spyware, I guess iOS is the way. Though if you do care about privacy, you can get yourself a pixel phone and flash GrapheneOS, which is far superior to stock android or iOS. It's FOSS, it has tools that will help with your privacy, etc. Plus android has a far bigger app market than iOS. You most likely will find everything you need in FDroid.

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[-] furrowsofar@beehaw.org 6 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

The big issues with iPhone I have are overly complicated, overly expensive, walled garden, and so locked down you cannot remote control, and cannot install your own software from your own sources. Researchers cannot even easily reaseach security issues and they do have them.

So with all that, iPhone is a no for me. On the other hand probably more secure. It is also not from an Ad company which is good.

[-] cloudless@feddit.uk 5 points 10 months ago

Whether Apple or Google collects/abuse more data, I'm not sure.

But I prefer iOS's design for app security. iOS apps are more restricted than Android apps in general, and when iOS apps require permissions they prompt clearly.

Most Android apps seem to have excessive permissions by default. The Play Store is a mess and the "Data safety" section is worse than useless, with scammers self-declaring the apps as "no data collected".

[-] nutbutter@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

You've used android. You've used iOS. Time to get a Linux phone. I'd suggest PinePhone.

Edit - Take a look at this post Open Source sub-lemmy.

[-] jet@hackertalks.com 6 points 10 months ago

100% supporting pine phone, but its not ready for a daily driver replacement

[-] iturnedintoanewt@lemm.ee 4 points 10 months ago

Good for testing/shits and giggles. Not for daily driver

[-] eddanja@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago

Android's PIN/password screen is shit. When you press a number, it shows the button you pressed. As you type 6279 or whatever, you see the 6 button flash as you press it.

Anyone looking over your shoulder can basically see your PIN. I miss Cyanogenmod. They altered the lockscreen so the numbers didn't do anything you type in 6279 and it looks like you're just touching your screen.

[-] biscuits@lemmy.sdfeu.org 6 points 10 months ago

Yeah, not sure if it's my ROM (DivestOS) or just Android 13, but in Settings > Screen lock I have Enhanced PIN privacy toggle that does just what you've described.

[-] shasta@lemm.ee 2 points 10 months ago

I have stock android 13 and I don't see that option. However, if you use Pattern instead of PIN, there is an option to not show the pattern you draw. This is closest to what OP was looking for. If course, I usually use my fingerprint to login anyway.

[-] mintyfrog@lemmy.ml 2 points 10 months ago

Graphene OS fixes this

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[-] abominable_panda@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago

Funny, on my subscription list the post right below yours addresses exactly that...but its an ad of sorts

https://monero.town/post/444517

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this post was submitted on 31 Aug 2023

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