448
Punch left only
(lemmy.world)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 01 Jul 2024
448 points (97.3% liked)
Political Memes
4596 readers
3422 users here now
Welcome to politcal memes!
These are our rules:
Be civil
Jokes are okay, but don’t intentionally harass or disturb any member of our community. Sexism, racism and bigotry are not allowed. Good faith argumentation only. No posts discouraging people to vote or shaming people for voting.
No misinformation
Don’t post any intentional misinformation. When asked by mods, provide sources for any claims you make.
Posts should be memes
Random pictures do not qualify as memes. Relevance to politics is required.
No bots, spam or self-promotion
Follow instance rules, ask for your bot to be allowed on this community.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
There were a number of objectively conservative parties that backed Hindenburg: Catholic Centre Party, BVP, DVP, and DStP. Hindenburg chose to support Hitler because of the threat posed by the left to the bourgeois interests he represented and because Hitler didn't really challenge said interests.
The SPD also chose Hindenburg over Thälmann, and if they knew he was going to support Hitler, then maybe they would've acted differently. But either way they weren't Hindenburg's core base of conservative support.
That's true, which means there was no possibility of a coalition being formed that involved the KPD, regardless of SPD's feelings about the KPD. Believe me, I'm not denying that the SPD hated the KPD. I'm certain of it, and it looks like so did every other party. My point is that the KPD hated the SPD, and all those other parties, at least as much. That's the thing about Marxist-Leninists, they excel at making people hate them, and they're perfectly content to be completely on their own, politically and ideologically isolated from everyone else. A plurality of German voters literally chose Nazis over the MLs. Even today, I think there are more people who hate MLs than hate Nazis, and that's saying something because A LOT of people really hate Nazis, rightfully so.
Yes, after the SPD unequivocally supported a pointless war that got millions killed, crushed leftist opposition, and teamed up with the conservatives to enact austerity, they did kind of burn their bridges with the KPD. And yes, the bourgeois parties hated the Marxist-Leninists much more than the Nazis who they collaborated with. The results of both of those sets of actions were disastrous.
If only the KPD had been more powerful, not only could WWII have been prevented, but WWI might have been cut short too.
You say "the bourgeois parties," but that's all the parties besides the KPD. That's more than 80% of German voters in 1932. After the depression, the war, the austerity, more people still voted for the SPD, and all the other parties, than the KPD. Those voters couldn't all be members of the capitalist class. In fact, I'm pretty darn certain they were mostly working class people.
First off, no, I'm referring to (at least some of) the parties I listed earlier as Hindenburg's base as bourgeois parties. I suppose you could include the Nazis and the SPD, but that's not how I'm using the term, note that I said "the bourgeois parties... [and] the Nazis who they collaborated with," implying a distinction.
Second, a bourgeois party is a party representing bourgeois interests and receiving bourgeois support. Working class people can and did support bourgeois parties, though as history showed, they shouldn't have.
A distinction without a difference. Whether explicitly bourgeois parties or not, the Nazis and SPD were both vehemently opposed to the ideology of the KPD, and those two parties received a majority of the votes in the 1932 election.
And do, still. By the millions, in every election. Or, at least, if not explicitly bourgeois parties, parties that are based on some form is liberal ideology, not necessarily in opposition to bourgeois interests, and that often are aggressively opposed to Marxism-Leninism.
Yes, and that's why Hindenburg won and appointed Hitler.
Yes, which is unfortunate and concerning, especially as the bourgeoisie tend to ally with the far-right to stop the left, which brought Hitler to power which is happening now with the CDU and the AfD, as pointed out in the article linked at the start of the conversation.