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Just a reminder
(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 12 Jun 2024
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"If you want things to improve you are literally a fascist" - A neoliberal guide to democracy
If you want things to improve, stop spreading defeatist narratives. One of two old men will become president next January, and how we vote in November decides who that is.
I have my criticisms of Biden, as many do, but I'm fucking voting for him because I understand the ramifications of a Trump win. I don't have any power to elect another candidate, even though I would like that very much, so I will not waste my time with that fantasy.
At this point, if you're arguing against Biden, I will treat you like you are arguing for Trump. Whether you like it or not, this decision is binary, so if you're spending your time and energy campaigning against Biden, you are just campaigning for Trump, and that absolutely makes you a fascist.
If you want a progressive president, stop being a useless scold and help us secure a candidate for the 2028 election when we next have the chance to win ground.
Some of us don't have the privilege or security to survive another Trump term, so remember who you're literally killing as you fight for Biden to lose.
And yet here you are spouting nonsense. Tell me oh wise one, which of the 4 choices would you make come November? 1) vote for Biden, 2) vote for Trump, 3) vote 3rd party, or 4) don’t vote?
Come out and say you support Trump then.
I’m down with the haight non family friendly drum circle at the college there but you are the one spouting nonsense
If yousdon't have a plan B for Trump winning or after the election in general, I'd call you the defeatist, sorry.
That's all my criticism: Don't have too much faith in electoralism and have a plan B.
Ok so what's the plan b?
Are you telling me you don't have a plan how to defend minorities and women's health if Trump wins?
I can do what I can but a lot is out of my control. I can't change laws or help people far away. Except of course by voting and donating, but I only have so much money. I'd rather prevent the possible harm to people as much as possible, rather than have to try to stop things after they've gone bad. And in terms of prevention, I don't have a plan b.
Join a mutual aid and community defense group. Help your community. Don't depend on lawmakers and judges. They've proven time and time again they're not on yopr side.
Are you implying you'll live abroad?
If so (I await your confirmation) that's a very privileged take.
No, I'm implying that progressives should start to take politics into their own hands and don't rely on what's happening in washington.
You can vote for Biden to your heart's content in November, but do you have to defend unwavering support of genocide in June? Biden voters, more than anyone else, should be at his throat for it, but I guess it's not the right time to not want massacres.
Maybe give me a timetable of when it's convenient for you to not want my family murdered
Can you answer me how the situtation would be bettered by the Republican who literally moved the embassy to Jerusalem to recognize that as the Israeli capital?
This wouldn't be the horse race it is if Biden had better policy. You should be pissed that your candidate is running such a shit campaign and disparaging college kids fighting for their beliefs.
It wouldn't. Criticizing Biden doesn't mean you want Trump to win? I'm baffled that this has to be explained.
You might not want it, but the fact is that we have a two party system in the US, and reducing support for one side always increases relative support for the other.
I'm baffled that this has to be explained.
So no one is allowed to criticize anything the democrats do because this is a zero sum game and anything you do just makes the republicans stronger. What a fantastic excuse.
Who said that? Maybe you're taking my assessment of the propagandist drumbeat about genocide being Biden's fault the wrong way.
It's real funny how you and your ilk never show up criticizing Netanyahu, who is, you know, the guy over-prosecuting this conflict.
How is it not the logical conclusion to "reducing support for one side increases support for the other"? In what cases am I allowed to criticize genocide and what cases am I not allowed?
Yeah you don't see me "and my ilk", whatever the fuck you're implying criticizing Netanyahu as much, I also didn't go out of my way to criticize Bin Laden a lot. Turns out you don't really need to convince people they should hang when everyone already agrees they should hang instead of defending their indefensible crimes against humanity.
The cool thing about Democrats in the US is that you can criticize their policies, and they might even listen to you. Good luck trying to do that with the right wing.
Then why bring up the thing about the two party system? We agree about criticizing their policies. People should do it, specially when the policy is genocide. Leveraging your vote and bargaining is the basic concept of democracy.
Because in many other comments, you're pressing that a vote for Biden is a vote for genocide (as though a Republican administration wouldn't do even worse things relative to that situation).
You are trying to convince people to be uncomfortable voting for the plainly better choice, and the result of that is to increase relative support for the wildly worse choice.
You should be uncomfortable voting for Biden. He is the lesser of two evils. This shouldn't make you feel good, you're sacrificing your convictions to stop something worse from happening.
If you want to be less uncomfortable, try getting him to stop supporting genocide.
POTUS has the power to pause military equipment shipments. Biden did exactly this with Israel, as have a few other presidents in other situations. The current congressional Republicans put forward legaislation to prevent POTUS from being able to do that. (I'm not sure whether that bill got anywhere or not.) Biden said he would veto such a bill.
As in my very first comment in this thread, the Biden administration is who crafted a tentative ceasefire agreement which may still come to fruition.
Foreign military aid to Israel is supplied as of the terms of the United States - Israel Strategic Partnership Act of 2014, a ten year agreement to supply Israel with certain military aid, which was signed by the US and Israel in 2016, and which took effect in 2018. That was passed by Congress. POTUS does not have the power to unilaterally end that agreement; Congress does.
Get the Republican-controlled House (remember, the one that wants to make it so POTUS can't even pause those shipment?) to pass a bill which reverses that act, then we'll talk.
So far as I can see, there's a ton of "bad shit" going on in Israel. I disagree with basically all of it. The Israeli government led by Netanyahu is responsible for that. What I see this administration doing is being very careful to use every tool they have at their disposal to shorten this conflict. One of those tools is the leverage the US has over Israel because of the military aid the US supplies.
Or, let the Reublicans handle it:
Not only do I find it curious that you propagandists never criticize Netanyahu, I find it doubly curious that you don't criticize the Republican party, which has very clearly been way more supportive of Israeli shenanigans.
If they were being so careful to use everything at their disposal, then how did they release a report tentatively exonerating Israel in such a way that it prevents the legal mandate to stop arms shipments?
https://www.democracynow.org/2024/5/31/stacy_gilbert_state_dept_resignation_gaza
I'd offer an article with direct quotes from said report:
The steering wheel of the bus with no brakes can't just be suddenly yanked one way or the other. I have to think that the people who wrote and approved this report knew full well that it was inaccurate, and that there would be public and media backlash about it.
It's been decades of "unwavering support for Israel, or you're a Nazi." Public opinion has to be changed on that if we're to apply anything like solid and effective pressure against the Israeli government.
Sorry, just to make sure I'm understanding, are you saying here "I have to think that the people who wrote and approved this report knew full well that it was inaccurate" that you think they lied, but that thats okay?
Ah, so we've moved to the "actually his support of genocide is actually the best possible scenario, you should be thankful" part of the argument.
You're telling me the Republican party is bad?
My God, what a revelation. I must meditate on this. Maybe I should have listened when they said "we are evil", but how was I supposed to know.
Oh, he's almost there, folks.
You're allowed to say whatever you want. You need to learn the difference between being disagreed with vs. being censored.
Nobody is telling you that you can't criticize Biden. We're just criticizing you.
They lack critical thinking skills and just repeat everything they hear on msnbc I suppose.
Another corporate shill.
It does in the case of election/voting choices.
To your point, criticizing Biden / the government now, in June is totally fine. And necessary. What's happening in the world, with a USA stamp on it is unacceptable.
Unfortunately republican actors are also doing that now and following up by saying "so that's why I'm not voting for Biden"
Oh stop with your strawman about how the person you're responding to, who did not mention Gaza/Israel AT ALL, is supporting genocide.
Biden supports genocide. A vote for Biden, regardless if it's the logical choice, is a vote for genocide wether you made peace with that or not. That's what electoralism gets you.
Want to offset that? Then make him stop supporting genocide. Here's a hint: He wants your votes
If you want to play that game, a vote for Biden is a vote for genocide-lite and any other action that leads to better trump chances is a vote (implicit or explicit vote) for genocide-max.
This argument could only be made by someone raised on propaganda and rife with Stockholm Syndrome.
Big words from a .ml user.
I simply acknowledge I am in a no-win, limited outcome situation. As such, I move to select the lesser harm option
I'm not going to threaten Gaza with an even worse genocide because Biden was weak on Israel.
No. But if your actions aid a fascist takeover you are either a fascist or a useful idiot.
if you want them to improve do not take action or inaction that will cause them to deteriorate.
Is "criticizing gleeful support of genocide" an action that will cause things to deteriorate? Is "asking elected officials to not be pieces of shit if they want to be elected fulfilling the basic concept of democracy" an action that will cause things to deteriorate?
no but not voting for the better option is.
Ok, vote for him in November.
Why defend the genocide now? Shouldn't he be treated like every other genocidal fucker until then?
No one is doing that. The OP is about voting.
The OP is about stomping out dissent and deflecting criticism
Seems you're having trouble with basic reading comprehension since you're all over this thread spouting this nonsense.
Nope, it's literally just you that is talking about that.
If your idea of improving things is to directly support the fashiest fascist you can find, then yes, you are indistinguishable from a fascist, and I will not attempt to draw a distinction without a difference.
Phew, I'm glad it's not then.